Unlocking the Leader Within : A Chat with Ingeborg

 Hardly anyone really knows that they know they maybe have trauma or They experienced things in their life. They obviously have, yeah, pain from that, but they don’t recognize that is the issue now. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Biz Bites, proudly brought to you by CommTogether, the people behind podcasts done for you, because we’re all about exposing other people’s brilliance.

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And welcome to another episode of Biz Bites. And I feel like we’re going to be doing something a little bit different today because it’s a little bit more of a look at yourself as a leader. And in Areas that maybe you can improve on personally and see how that is going to have an impact on your business.

But we’re going to explore plenty in this episode. I’ve only just got to know our guest a little bit in a couple of discussions that we’ve had. We were lucky enough to be introduced online. That’s always how these things happen these days. And she’s all the way in the other side of the world. So Ingeborg, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.

I’ve done my best to get your name pronounced right, but I apologize for the Australian, I’m apologizing for the Australian accent, but why don’t you introduce yourself a little bit and tell us, where you’re coming from as well, because I’m in Sydney, but you’re not. No, I’m not. Thank you for having me.

I’m in Holland and apologize for my accent, obviously. But we have one and yeah, I’m in all the way in the Netherlands, totally on the other side and different time zone as well, obviously. So here I am. It makes it all a lot of fun, doesn’t it? That’s the beauty of technology. These days is you can do all of those things.

Let’s get into it. Why don’t you tell me first, firstly, your business is MetaMind Breakthrough. What is the business about? What is it that you actually do? Yeah I call myself a business and personal relationship alchemist. And I use the word alchemist because I use different things to get results for my clients.

I work in the relationship realm at its broadest, and then you can think of For personal, it’s like codependency attachment issues, abandonment issues narcissism, abuse relationship addiction or a combination thereof. And in business, it shows up different, but the issues usually quite the same.

It’s like people trouble managing their team. They want to have a promotion. They pass by all the time. They have trouble. With colleagues or with their boss, things like that. And in the end, it’s all like relationship. And actually it is the core issues. So the core issues and I’ll get to that space with them.

So that’s very short description of what I do. I suppose the starting point is for me is understanding a little bit about firstly, the kind of people that come to you, do they have to be, Are they being sent to you or are they coming to you willingly? Recognizing that they’ve got, do people recognize the issues that they have or they, what’s the starting point?

Yeah some of them do they may not know like the real issue. That’s usually the case, but what they do recognize is that they are stuck. They keep on getting in the same sort of patterns. That’s what they recognize as well. They’re stuck. They want to have a change, but they don’t know how. And that’s usually I don’t know how I want to change.

I don’t know how and then, yeah, what I said, if it’s really personal, they start reading, they reading books, listening to podcasts, things like that. And then they get a sort of feeling, Oh, I might be a codependent because I’ll always say, yeah, trouble saying no trouble setting my boundaries. They recognize that they think that’s the problem.

So it’s usually like the symptoms they come to me with but it’s never symptoms. It’s always something deeper that they don’t know usually. And that’s normal, hardly anyone really knows that. They know they maybe have trauma or they experienced things in their life, they obviously have, yeah, pain from that, but they don’t recognize that is the issue now.

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Hardly anyone really knows that. They know they maybe have trauma or they experienced things in their life, they obviously have, yeah, pain from that, but they don’t recognize that is the issue now.

I’m intrigued with this because what’s the balance? Because you call yourself a coach in that sense. What’s the difference between someone going, if they’re recognizing some of those traits, is it first appearing for them in a business sense, which is why they’re coming to you versus, are they, are they going to a psychiatrist or psychologist as well?

How does that balance work between those? Yeah I just to reaffirm, I call myself a coach slash therapist because that’s what it is actually. About 50 50, I would say some of them go to a psychologist or what you say and they don’t get the real help they want, not saying that they’re not good psychologists or whatever, but this is specific kind of work and just talking, talk therapy is not enough.

So you really have to get to the core issue, not only getting the insights, but knowing how to change on the deeper level, like fundamentally, you have to change it, you have to heal. And that sometimes doesn’t work. If you go to psychologist, just talking, that’s having the insights. Yeah, that’s not enough.

So it could be like real and personal. They have a relationship, they have trouble there, or they don’t have a relationship and they want one. Things like that. Or it’s real, like what I said, 50 50 is really someone at work. We’re having the same trouble like either finding a job or that managing their team, taking up their space, being the real leader.

They have trouble doing that and they don’t recognize why it is. They think there’s something wrong with them in a different sense. And it’s it’s always the case that there’s something deeper. Why they don’t allow themselves or are afraid to speak up or afraid to say no, things like that. They have trouble speaking their truth as well.

So it’s a lot of different things. It’s not just one thing and a lot of different things. It’s a lot of like deep inner work, but it’s a lot of mental work as well. Do people see that as being, are people always seeing it in themselves first? Or are they seeing it as maybe they’ve noticed some traits and things in their parents.

And fearing that they’re, that’s, they’re going, is that often a trigger or is it usually quite separate and people just have a self realization and maybe it then goes back to parents and other influences around there. I’m just intrigued as to where it, where that self realization comes from.

That’s, there was almost a 50 50 as well, because I have people, they say, Oh, I had a really nice upbringing. There was nothing wrong there. So I don’t understand why I’m having trouble with ABC or people saying, Oh, I had a really rough upbringing. I’m sure it has to do something with what happened there, but I just, they’re always stuck.

And they don’t know how to move forward. They tried a lot of things. That’s what usually happens as well. They read all the books, what I said, listen to the podcast, they have the insights and they don’t understand why it’s not enough to move forward to change. So it’s the, yeah, 50, 50 as well. Almost.

It’s it’s a typical thing though, isn’t it? That That initial step of realizing that something’s holding you back or something’s interfering with how you want to perform. Yeah. And I always say that the pain has to be big enough to make that step, to make that call, to start looking for someone, because if the pain is not big enough, you’re not going to do the work.

to change because changing is a lot of hard work. And dealing with your feelings and emotions and pain from the past is not nice, but necessary. So the pain has to be big enough. You have to be hold back by it and not making the steps you want to and then people feel and they realize they’re in the same pattern.

Usually keep on doing the same thing, being in the same loop. And then they start realizing, okay, maybe I need some help. Maybe I can’t do it on my own. Maybe all the books and podcasts doesn’t do the trick. And then they start looking. I think it’s worth pointing out to people as well that the caliber of people that you’re working with you’re working with some bigger organizations and people are leading bigger businesses and things as well as some of the smaller ones.

So there’s a range of people that you deal with. In this process. I’m fascinated as well by, what the balance is between the personal and the professional, because that’s where I think you’re very unique in what you’re doing in balancing those two spaces and and where that. Realization is, are the people that are coming to you with that self realization, is it because they recognize that it’s impacting both?

Or is it that the business has tends to be the initial prompt and then it goes into the other? How do you, where do you see that kind of balance? Sometimes it is. Yes. Sometimes they just come in what I said with the examples like managing the team and it’s not working and they are in front of a big, a scale up or things like that.

And there’s something, there’s a hurdle they don’t know what it is. But the thing is with my work, whatever, you start with professional or like personal, it spreads out. Because you’re in it. It’s you who’s changing. So obviously when you change and the work site will change because that’s what you want, you’ll notice it a way in your personal life as well and vice versa.

So because yeah, you can’t be really different. Obviously you’re a bit different at work, but In the end, you’re the same person, so you’ll notice it at home with friends, family, things like that, and at work as well. So there’s never anyone, someone, when the initial question is like from personal sides, there’s nothing off limits for me.

And the other way around as well, because yeah, what I said, you’re in there. Totally. So both sides will be surfaced, so to speak. Yeah, it’s I think that’s a fascinating area that the realization, particularly in a work scenario, that things are not. Translating as you would like them to be, and you’re not on the career path, or you’re not, as you say, not handling team members and other situations.

There’s a pattern there that just in a work sense is a difficult thing to realize, because we all want to think that we’re probably better than what we are in some respect. So I suppose there are plenty of people that think otherwise, that they’re not as good as they think they are, but I guess that’s the question.

At a when you’re talking about people who are leaders in business, at whatever level of business they are, but in some kind of leadership role, is it important for them to just be understanding their own limitations and to be recognizing that is that something that we all should be doing?

I think we should actually, yeah. Yeah, that’s a short answer, but yeah, because when you know yourself you’d be able to relate to other people from an authentic space and maybe that’s a bit of a coach words, we but that’s the thing. People, some people let’s say, don’t realize that a lot of things happening uh, the energy.

What is happening when you relate to another person in the workspace as well. It’s all like subconscious. So when you’re not healed or when you’re not happy with yourself, let’s make use of the normal words, like happy with yourself, what, where you want to go, you relate different to people and you can say here, Oh, no, everything is going well.

But people will pick up on it that it’s not there, so the relationship will be different. You will get trouble and you don’t realize why that is. So I think, yeah, everybody should do that. It will help your work and your life. I think one of the things I’m interested in your take on this because one of the things has definitely changed in the workplace.

The theory used to be that when you come to work, you should leave your personal at the door and just focus on work. Yeah. As I understand it, that idea is a bit of a outdated notion and been, even pushed even further because of the whole COVID situation where everyone, in many countries, we had lockdowns and people started working from home and working from home has become a normal thing.

So that lot, that blurred line between personal and private is blurrier than it’s ever been, isn’t it? Um, yeah, it is. And I think it’s actually good because what people tend to forget as well, we are emotional beings and the end we’re not logical or rational at all. That’s what we try to think.

That’s what we try to do as well. And obviously we have, some logic, but mostly all our decisions and everything are made like from the subconscious mind. So if you use that, you’ll be, you can become a lot stronger and become a better leader. If that’s in harmony, between the head and the heart or the head and the gut or whatever you want to call it.

So I think it’s good because you, how would you do that? Like separate, like you step into your office and then. You are a totally different person. You’re, I think you can use it. You don’t have to share everything, obviously, but share something because that makes the connection better.

And you can’t do business without relationships on any level. And starting with the, sorry, starting with the relationship with yourself. That’s always the beginning. And if that’s okay, and you’re good with yourself, then you can relate to other people much easier and do business better, because that’s what she wants to do.

Yeah it, I find it amazing when people can really think that they can. Put compartmentalize what’s happening in your personal life and not bring it Into the workspace because I think no matter how hard you try it’s very difficult if you’re Things are going on at home To not be in a particular mood, and that could be good and that could be bad, but whatever’s going on to not bring that into the office is actually incredibly difficult to do although I’m interested in your perspective on this as well, because I know there are specialists out there who do, who talk to the idea of building alter egos.

So you’re almost to try and push you through some of those boundaries. So it might be less about the day to day, but more about recognizing that you have some deficiencies in areas. And do you need to put on or build an alter ego in order to be able to push through those? Those boundaries, which also takes a bit of self diagnosis to say I’m a bit deficient in this area.

But maybe if I build an alter ego, maybe I can be someone else. What’s your feeling about that whole idea? Yeah maybe that’s being Dutch as well. So being in, in in this culture might be different, I’ll just put that in. I’m not really a fan of doing that. And actually because I why would you do that?

Why, if you find you’re deficient, what would you say? You have to be acknowledge that first before you can do something about it. But why would you build an alter ego and be something, because I think it takes so much of your energy in doing that. Whilst be easier or better, I would say try to build on the deficiency.

Find someone who can help you with that, and it’s actually easier to focus on the strength you have. And find something which suits that rather than trying to build that the things you can’t really do, try to be better than that. I think they’ve done plenty of studies on that, that it’s better to focus on the things you can do good already.

It makes it better than putting all your energy in things you can’t really do and trying to become better. Whatever you want. So my take would be focus on that, what you can already do really good. I find it fascinating. And when people speak in that area that the examples that they give. Usually are not business examples.

Examples of sports people that do that, that they, when they go onto the when they move onto the to the court or whatever it is that they suddenly in that situation where they’re going, okay, I’m going to pretend that I’m This kind of person or that certainly I’m aware of a musician that I don’t particularly name the person, but was well publicized, suffered from stage fright, built an alter ego around that.

And for many years as they walked on stage, had to think of themselves in that alter ego. I believe they’ve now got to the point where they don’t anymore, that they’ve become integrated, but I don’t know that’s it’s quite a, It’s quite an interesting one, because it’s a bit like in a business, the equivalent in a business sense might be you’re a CEO, for example, of a company, and you’re really great at your knowledge of the company, you’re really great at the knowledge of what they do, you might even be a thought leader in the space that you’re in, does that mean that you can get on stage and speak about it?

Because it is a different, it is a different kind of idea. You might want to but making that leap can actually be a difficult thing. And so I suppose it’s a bit like, is there part of what you’re doing is also realizing your limitations or is it trying to, is it always trying to strive and to break through?

Because in that particular case, do you have to work away that they can be able to do that? Or do you have to say that may not be you. Oh, I always say what, like what you want if I know it’s to be true that if there’s some sort of seed in you that wants to be on stage or that wants to do talks, you have to go elaborate on that and you can help someone get to that space.

Maybe you’re not the most fluent one or the most funny one or whatever. But I’m a strong believer that you can learn almost anything you want if you put your mind to it and if you put your heart in and whatever. And some things you have to do because it’s part of the job. And so you can learn that if someone wants to do that.

And what you said earlier about being that alter ego, maybe if someone thinks that because we can use the mind in very good ways as well, so we can pretend. To be a great speaker do a lot of hours of practicing and everything. And maybe you’ll come to that persona you’ve made up.

But I believe there is already some sort of foundation within you to do and some eagerness and some dreams you have about it. And then you have to do a lot of practicing to get to that point. But I always feel with my clients as well that people don’t have a lot of self esteem or they doubt themselves.

I believe in general that people can do a lot more than what they do. They limit themselves, they hold themselves back and things like that. You can do a lot more if you want. And what I just said, when the seed is planted there for whatever reason, I believe there’s a reason for it.

So you should find it and do something with it because otherwise it’s just a shame not to do I’m not sure who the original quote is from, but there’s that idea of you’re limited by your own set of beliefs. And it’s, it, but understanding. what those limitations are, where you’re at and being able to break through.

That’s the challenge, right? That’s where I come in. Yes. And so let me ask you a double sided question. And on one hand, what? What are there any tips for people to saying? Look something’s holding me back, but I have no idea what it is. Is there anything that some tips to do a bit of a self diagnosis to try and understand a little bit as a stepping stone before they might engage with someone like yourself?

And equally then, once they’ve recognized that, or is there anything that they can do to start down the path of trying to take those initial steps? The thing is, yeah, obviously you can start thinking, but what I said, like in the beginning, there is a limitation because we all have this blind spots and there’s a mechanism within people in general, that if you move towards the pain, which is obviously something what happens or what didn’t happen and you would like it to happen.

You move away. So from pain to pleasure, that’s what happens. That’s what the mind does. That’s like this survival mechanism. So you might realize you have pain. You might realize you’re in that pattern. You might realize you want it to be changed. But then this mechanism starts kicking in and that’s why it’s in this kind of work you need someone being me or someone else but you need someone to make it as we call it like emotionally safe because apparently it’s not safe for you to move to that area to move to that pain.

And that pain is there because of something happened or because lack of things you needed when you were little. So the things, what they can do, yeah, they can read the books and they can read to the podcast and get some sort of insight, some sort of recognition. I think, Oh, that’s what I’m doing. Oh, this is what’s happening with me.

But the how to change in my opinion, you need someone to help you through that. Yes, that is, is the worst tool that exists for someone like you is Google because people like to self diagnose. Yes, they do. And then they start convincing me, that it’s maybe something else things like that.

But that’s normal. That’s normal because we want to have this control as well. And yeah, not being perceived as a silly or whatever. So they, yeah, they tend, and it’s a survival mechanism as well. And I guess the interesting thing about the self diagnosis in that way is, do they usually jump to an extreme and it’s not as bad as what they think it is, or are they, what do you find is the when people come into you?

Sometimes they underestimate it. They think like what the people they say, oh my childhood was really good. There’s nothing there. So I’m not really sure what we’re going to find. They don’t want to know or the other sides, like the other people that said really rough I’m sure it’s from there, which is usually is, but in a different sense of what they think it is.

They say yeah, but it’s such a long time ago. My parents got divorced. It can’t be the problem now. And then ask me, and then we’ll just have to explore. Yeah, that’s really interesting to me as well, because when I’m working in marketing with people, when you talk about they’re trying to find their purpose, their why and you do this kind of exercise where it often does take them back to that.

And it’s amazing how often that it does go back to something that would seem rather incidental in their childhood. Is what’s led them down a complete career path. I’ve, got a number of stories of that, even did that exercise with a friend and he came to me afterwards. He goes, wow, I haven’t thought about that in 40 years and yet it’s the whole reason he does what he does.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The mind is a funny thing in that sense because it’s, it sounds good and a lot of times what I find as well is that people say, Oh, I don’t have any memories. It’s just me, I don’t have any memories. And then when we start working, memories start popping up because there’s movements.

There’s this, you realize, or you create space for them. And it’s a trauma response. Usually where you don’t remember anything, it’s a trauma response. That’s what the mind does. Because it’s too overwhelming. It’s too much. And then, slightly and slowly you get some memories back because now you’ll be able to handle them in a better way, in a different way.

I want to just pinpoint, because we could talk endlessly about so many different points that you’ve raised, but one, one that you raised right at the beginning is as one of the things that that people either they recognize it or it turns out to be is around narcissism. And it’s a term that I think we’ve heard a little bit more in, in recent times for one reason or another.

But I’m fascinated by that. Is that a common trait for a lot of people? A lot of business leaders because is it something that can be it’s almost is it almost essential sometimes for people who are starting business and they’re holding on to things and they want it to be all about them. It is a difficult thing to let go and how much of that is actually a trait that transfers into their personal life.

It’s not just because they’re holding dear to a business that they started. Yeah, like what you said, the term is is more common. In, in, in reality, they’re not that many people like one or 2 percent who are real like narcissist. We do recognize more narcissistic traits especially in leaders as well.

That doesn’t mean they are. And the thing is you have to have some personality traits, which could be like narcissistic as well to be a good leader. But in the end. Your ego is never going to do the job in that sense, because if you are a real good leader, in my opinion, you should be using the people around you or working for you and actually, taking a step back.

And let them do the work and not like being that big ego and see, Oh, I did all the work and everything, because I think that sort of comes back to you after a while. Like a boomerang, that sort of decisions you make and things like that, I don’t believe that’s going to work in the end. Yeah and I’m interested as well.

And again, we could talk for ages about all of these things. So we’re just, tip of the iceberg with some of it. But how many times are there? Traits like narcissism, and there are many others that you’ve mentioned as well, that may actually be the reason why the person has got to a level of success.

And then it’s recognizing that’s now a limitation for it’s going even further, because narcissism might be a great example of that, or some traits of narcissism, that you’re it’s driven you to a certain point, but there’s a point where if you’re not letting go, you’re not gonna be able to scale the business, for example, is one example.

Yeah, because if if it’s a real narcissist, then you make so much trouble on your path to success. So that will come back to you one way or the other and sometimes not, but it’s very rare case what I find actually and what you said there, there’s just a limitation in what you can do and how you can use people.

On your way to success. Yeah you’ll find if someone is not a narcissist, it will catch up on you and you will want to do that different and I think that’s timing as well, when you get more mature, you start realizing there’s more to the world than just you getting all that money and a big car and things like that.

Then they start to realize and they want to do. business different. And sometimes I find that There’s something happening in their life. They’re really successful in the business, but they have trouble getting that partner or keeping a partner. So they realizing that they’re successful in that area, but not so successful in the other.

And when they start working on that part, the business is changing as well. Because it’s what we talked about in the beginning, you can’t really separate. One from the other because you’re in it with your whole self. So you are limiting yourself there, but they don’t realize it’s because of this thing, what’s happening at home or what they want to be hap happening at home.

So when they start working on that business starts. flowering up as well. There’s so many things we can talk about, but I just want to point out to everyone whether you’re watching or listening in at the moment metamindbreakthrough. com is the is the website. We’ll, of course, include all the information in the show notes, including there’s an ebook to download that will provide a link for as well as an opportunity to have a 15 minutes.

Free conversation and dive a little deeper into whatever issues might be potentially holding you back. And I encourage people to take take up that opportunity because I think that if you’re thinking about it, it probably means you need it. Is that the, that’s a good one. Yeah, that’s just a little sheet, what we talked about earlier.

Yeah, we’ve got a few other things that I wanted to explore, but I also wanted to point out to people that we’re going to do a little bit of bonus content for people and giving a little bit of information about resilience and how to follow your own lead and how to set proper boundaries.

So there’ll be a few tips in that, that we’re going to explore in the bonus content, the links to the To how to access that will, of course, be in the show notes, but I just wanted to divert a little bit for a moment as well. I wanted to find out how you actually get into this area. Tell me a little bit about the journey that you’ve been on because I’m well, I guess I’m interested as to whether This, where you are at now was what the vision was when you were in school and looking at, deciding on what to study where was the career path at that point, and how did you get to where you are?

Yeah. I grew up myself with the with a narcissistic mother. So I know from the inside out how that works and what, yeah, what kind of trauma you, you get from that and how it’s holding you back in life and what it took me to get to the point where I’m now. And I actually studied hotel management.

So totally like a broad study. I really liked it. And then I diverted in 2000 because there was something in me with my experience as well, but I wanted to explore the feeling size. As I call it and help people. And I’m fascinated by why people do the things they do or why they don’t do the things they do.

I’m fascinated by the mind and by the subconscious and everything. So I did a lot of studies after that time and it brought me to where I’m now. And I’m using everything I did. I did a lot of mind work, mind studies and from the body and from the soul. So it’s like a combination of so many modalities and it brought me into my own methods, what I use to get people.

What’s my, my my mission actually as you can call it is that I want people not to suffer that long what I had and really teach them how to use their feelings and what’s their, the whole. The whole thing, what you can do with it, how it’s working and how your life is shaped if you work from that place.

So that’s my mission to help more people globally as well, actually. And Yeah, live a better, happier life, get a relationship if you want, things like that. Thank you for sharing all of that and I know we could, again, we could delve a lot deeper and talk a lot more about about all of that and the journey that you’ve been on.

And it’s a challenging, it’s a challenging journey that you’ve been on and at the same time, you’ve used it to empower yourself to move forward. And to help others, which I think is an amazing thing to be able to do. And I love the intersection that you’ve got between business and personal and that those breakthroughs I think are huge for people to be able to have.

And it’s a question that, that I like to ask at the end of the podcast people say. What is it, what is the breakthrough that people tend to have when they’re working with you that you wish more people realized that they were going to have? That’s the connection. From your head to your heart or from your head to your feelings is the most powerful one.

If you really know how to connect with your instincts, with your feelings. Because 99. 99 percent of all the decisions we make. are from the subconscious, are from your feeling side and if you know how to get a grip on that you can move your life in whatever way you want. It’s not, you’re like, you’re waiting when something’s happening and you’re making a list and trying to do everything from your logic minds.

It’s so much easier and you’re in tune with yourself. You’re happy, you’re calm, whatever. And it’s your life. And yeah you better equipped everything is what you want. And it’s just good to realize what both is for. So what your mind is for and what your feeling side is for.

And if you know how to use that, both then you can live the life you want. And that’s because that, and that’s why it’s like with the business and personal as well. That’s because I’m like that as well. I like the analytical side, the mind thing, neuroplasticity and everything. And I like the feeling side and I like them to be together, to use them both in a sense that it helps you in the best way.

That is I think a really powerful way to end the main podcast and just to remind everyone if you want the bonus content, and I know you’re going to want the bonus content to look at resilience and how to follow your own lead and how to set some proper boundaries. Then the links will be in the show notes.

And of course, as I said before, links to how to get in touch, the website booking a free call, ebook, all of those things we’re going to include in the show notes as well. So from the main podcast point of view, thank you so much for being a wonderful guest, exploring so many things. As we said, we just touched on a few key areas and I hope there’s a lot of people that are nodding their heads and thinking I need to take some action as a result of the podcast.

Yeah. Thanks for having me. I really liked it. Yeah. To explore and some really good questions as well. Thank you. And reminded to everyone to click on the link for the bonus content. And of course, stay tuned for the next episode of Biz Bites. Hey, thanks for listening to Biz Bites. We hope you enjoyed the program.

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