The Models Method – Part 2

SUMMARY:

Overview:

– This episode explores the impact of AI on businesses and society, discussing potential risks and limitations, the importance of authentic content and human experiences, and the need to balance AI with human judgment and expertise.

Topics:

1. AI and its impact on businesses and society:

– The AI market is growing rapidly, but there is a high failure rate of AI apps.

– AI has the potential to stifle the creative genius that drives value in businesses.

– Authentic content and human experiences are invaluable and cannot be replaced by AI.

2. AI and Decision Making:

– There is a risk of relying solely on chatbots for decision making, neglecting human judgment.

– Providing sufficient information to chatbots is crucial for satisfactory answers.

– It is important to differentiate between various applications of AI and not solely rely on chatbots for decision making.

3. AI in Social Media (LinkedIn):

– LinkedIn encourages the use of chatbots, but it may not serve a purpose and can contribute to popularity for popularity’s sake.

– Maintaining a personal voice on LinkedIn is important to distinguish human-generated ideas and comments from AI-generated ones.

– AI-generated posts and comments may have marketing value but lack real value to humanity.

Follow-up tasks or actions:

– No specific follow-up tasks or actions were assigned in the transcript.

Tune in to this episode to gain insights into the impact of AI on businesses and society, the risks of relying solely on AI, and the importance of maintaining human judgment and authenticity in the age of AI.

TRANSCRIPT:

Transcripts: Anthony Perl: (00:00:01) I hope you’ve had a chance to listen to part one of this interview on Biz Bytes.

Anthony Perl: (00:00:06) Stay tuned now for Part 2.

Anthony Perl: (00:00:11) Welcome to Biz Bites, brought to you by CommTogether, helping businesses like yours build their brand through telling amazing stories to engage and grow audiences on multiple platforms.

Anthony Perl: (00:00:25) But you know what I find fascinating and if you’ve just got a moment is, is the AI area because we’ve got chat, GPTS and the like that are out there that have been offered for free.

Anthony Perl: (00:00:37) But it’s amazing how quickly it’s moved into a you must pay or here are products that you must pay from.

Anthony Perl: (00:00:44) And and that was it took a long time before iTunes went iTunes was went from free to the paid Apple Music store like it’s taken decades and and I think that’s getting lost as well that that that idea of that jump for cash is probably sacrificing the potential of a lot of companies.

Anthony Perl: (00:01:07) You know, if you’re using that same analogy.

Simon Bowen : (00:01:09) Yeah.

Simon Bowen : (00:01:09) Well, it it, it means that you can have the market cut out from underneath you just as fast as you built it, right.

Simon Bowen : (00:01:18) So I can’t, I don’t, I’m not really clear about the stats but I heard somewhere I think 1100 new AI apps coming onto the market daily now worldwide but the but the failure rate of that meaning the number of apps that just don’t survive is well over 75% I think I I am not talking but it’s a it’s a disproportionately high number and AI may well be one of the greatest inventions in the world.

Simon Bowen : (00:01:44) It certainly may be the next step, like the Internet was, but it’s also one of our greatest risks.

Simon Bowen : (00:01:49) But here’s the issue with AI.

Simon Bowen : (00:01:52) You know, some of the people, seeing as a panacea, you know, this is the greatest threat to human existence.

Simon Bowen : (00:01:57) Honestly, the greater threat to human existence is humans.

Simon Bowen : (00:02:01) You know, military weaponisation, irresponsible globalisation of commerce.

Simon Bowen : (00:02:09) I’m not saying globalisation is bad.

Simon Bowen : (00:02:10) I’m saying the irresponsible nature of it might be the the spread of pandemics.

Simon Bowen : (00:02:15) We’ve just seen that play out.

Simon Bowen : (00:02:17) If we’re not good at managing things like that, potentially what we’re doing to the planet, health wise, you know, I think a lot of those things might catch up with us faster than AI having bots that have answered the question, how can we save the environment?

Simon Bowen : (00:02:33) Oh well, let’s kill off the humans.

Simon Bowen : (00:02:35) And AI has access to the nuclear silos and it just decides to blast the humans, right?

Simon Bowen : (00:02:41) I think we’re away away from that.

Simon Bowen : (00:02:43) But what AI has this risk of doing is stifling the creative genius that drives most value, right?

Simon Bowen : (00:02:55) And because if you go to ChatGPT and ask a question, it it’s whole agenda is to give you an answer.

Simon Bowen : (00:03:01) And sometimes the answer’s not right.

Simon Bowen : (00:03:03) But when you ask chat, it wants to answer you, right?

Simon Bowen : (00:03:06) That’s what it wants to do.

Simon Bowen : (00:03:08) So what’s the difference between chat and human right?

Simon Bowen : (00:03:11) Chat can do concept, cat chat can do content, chat can do, you know, assembly, chat can do, you know, constructs and all of that sort of thing.

Simon Bowen : (00:03:24) But chat doesn’t do context and it doesn’t do consequence.

Simon Bowen : (00:03:30) Chat’s not going to get sued.

Simon Bowen : (00:03:32) Humans who used chat and did something are going to get sued.

Simon Bowen : (00:03:35) So chat isn’t attached to the consequences of the answers it gives you.

Simon Bowen : (00:03:41) It’s just going to give you an answer.

Simon Bowen : (00:03:43) And so you imagine someone going to chat saying, hey chat, I’ve got a question for you, can you help me with this problem?

Simon Bowen : (00:03:50) Chat will give it an answer because chat doesn’t have context.

Simon Bowen : (00:03:53) It’s just going to answer what was written in front of it.

Simon Bowen : (00:03:55) And if the person putting the prompt in isn’t skilled enough to put the context in, they can get the wrong answer.

Simon Bowen : (00:04:02) And most people are not skilled at context.

Simon Bowen : (00:04:05) A human, if if that person went to a human and said, hey, I’ve got this problem, can you help me with this problem?

Simon Bowen : (00:04:13) A skilled human might say that’s not the right question.

Simon Bowen : (00:04:17) Now, chat is never going to say to somebody that’s not the right question.

Simon Bowen : (00:04:21) Not, not, not in the, you know.

Simon Bowen : (00:04:22) In the short term at least.

Simon Bowen : (00:04:24) Who knows what it might be able to do because it doesn’t have context like a like a human does, who has intuitive genius, right, that we get into a framework?

Anthony Perl: (00:04:31) Absolutely.

Anthony Perl: (00:04:32) I mean, I’m a big believer in in authentic content.

Anthony Perl: (00:04:36) It’s what I’ve built my business around is that you know nothing replaces the ability to draw on your own personal experiences and share them and respond accordingly And and you know using your analogy you know if you ask if you ask chat what’s can you suggest some drinks for me now if the the chat doesn’t know my age unless you tell it to ask its age in in advance so it can go and suggest you know orange juice milk when I might be looking for a beer you know or a whiskey or something and and you don’t and vice versa.

Anthony Perl: (00:05:14) You don’t want it to happen.

Anthony Perl: (00:05:15) You don’t want it, you know, don’t want it turning around and suggesting to a 12 year old that you know, go and have a whiskey.

Anthony Perl: (00:05:20) So and I think that there is so much there in that genius space and in that authentic space that is never going to disappear.

Anthony Perl: (00:05:32) It’s a question of how well you use it and and that’s the that’s the thing, isn’t it?

Anthony Perl: (00:05:38) It’s it’s taking the models that you create, taking the, you know, authentic content that goes alongside of all of those things that explains it and being able to utilise that which is separates the the great companies from the average ones.

Simon Bowen : (00:05:52) What you have to keep, you have to keep being able to level up.

Simon Bowen : (00:05:56) You know, you, you, you.

Simon Bowen : (00:06:00) Humans are fundamentally analogue and the digital world will have speed and ability that we don’t have.

Simon Bowen : (00:06:05) There’s no point in being fearful of it.

Simon Bowen : (00:06:08) You just have to keep levelling up and figuring out how to use it.

Simon Bowen : (00:06:11) And I think chat’s pretty fabulous.

Simon Bowen : (00:06:12) I use it, but I’m really judicious about how I use it.

Simon Bowen : (00:06:18) And you, you made an interesting comment.

Simon Bowen : (00:06:20) It’s just sparked a thought for me.

Simon Bowen : (00:06:22) You know, if I go to chat and say suggest some drinks for me, chat isn’t going to give you the right answer.

Simon Bowen : (00:06:29) So if I use myself an example, if I went hey chat, suggest, suggest for suggest some drinks.

Simon Bowen : (00:06:34) For me, I’m 62 years old.

Simon Bowen : (00:06:36) I like red wine.

Simon Bowen : (00:06:38) You know, I I like a a nice crisp light beer.

Simon Bowen : (00:06:41) I like ginger beer.

Simon Bowen : (00:06:43) I also like milk based drinks.

Simon Bowen : (00:06:45) I’m not big on on pure alcohols like you know, Scotch and you know rum and and tequila and things like that.

Simon Bowen : (00:06:55) I love sparkling water and soda water.

Simon Bowen : (00:07:00) Suggest a drink for me so I can give it a prompt, right.

Simon Bowen : (00:07:04) And you know, and right now I’m really thirsty.

Simon Bowen : (00:07:07) I’d like something that quenches my thirst and chat’s likely to say, how about a really crispier?

Simon Bowen : (00:07:14) Well, if I have to write, if I have to effectively almost write the answer in the prompt, I should have just I should have just made my own choice, right?

Simon Bowen : (00:07:24) So I think we’ve got A, we’ve got a risk that we will delegate decision making to chat when the human had the ability to make the decision.

Simon Bowen : (00:07:35) Like if I’ve got to give it enough information to give me an answer that I can live with.

Simon Bowen : (00:07:40) And in the prompt that I write, I’m almost effectively writing the answer or giving as much information that I would have processed.

Simon Bowen : (00:07:47) Like if I laid that out, you would probably say to me like I don’t need chat, you’d probably say what about a really good B assignment.

Simon Bowen : (00:07:55) Single fin is a nice crisp beer that you’d probably like.

Simon Bowen : (00:07:58) I go, great, I’ll use single fin, right.

Simon Bowen : (00:08:01) So I think we’ve got this whole learning curve we’ve got to go through with AI.

Simon Bowen : (00:08:05) Now I, I, I, and I, I, I, I, you know, chat, we’ve got to be careful about the label AI.

Simon Bowen : (00:08:12) There’s a lot of difference between AI driven technology that can automate a whole lot of things like production line applications of AI that you know can can build.

Simon Bowen : (00:08:23) You know Nissan now can build any model of car on the production line, one after the other, completely different models based on where the chassis is touching the the, the belt it, it, it can assemble different models in any sequence based on orders, so it doesn’t have to make all of the one model and then the next model.

Simon Bowen : (00:08:42) That’s an entirely different use of AI compared to something like ChatGPT.

Simon Bowen : (00:08:46) So we’ve even got to be careful about the term AI because it’s a very broad application.

Simon Bowen : (00:08:54) But if we think about something like chat, I I think we’ve got to be, you know, we’ve really got to acknowledge we’re in the learning phase and we’ve got to be.

Simon Bowen : (00:09:04) We’ve got to make sure that we don’t just go to chat and lose the ability for discernment and judgement and decision making and and creative and lateral thinking.

Simon Bowen : (00:09:14) And ’cause it’s easy for that to happen.

Simon Bowen : (00:09:16) You know what happened to people’s abilities with the times tables?

Simon Bowen : (00:09:23) Once everyone had a calculator on their phone?

Simon Bowen : (00:09:25) You know, yes.

Anthony Perl: (00:09:28) It’s it’s really I think this this space is one of the dangers that I’ve seen is that what’s happened is is people are creating new jobs in their in their company.

Anthony Perl: (00:09:38) So they’ve gone from whatever the job was to now creating a job that’s running the chat, the the chat bot.

Anthony Perl: (00:09:43) And the problem is, is those people that are running the chat are doing it to be general and then and so they’re not got any specificity and they’re also now removing themselves from day-to-day human contact in that in that sense of that role.

Anthony Perl: (00:10:00) So now you’ve got these people trying to be general away from what the reality is.

Anthony Perl: (00:10:06) There’s a real danger that the job that’s been created to make this thing work and manage it on a day-to-day basis is actually removing you from from where you need to be.

Anthony Perl: (00:10:17) It’s a false sense of saving.

Anthony Perl: (00:10:19) And I think there’s a, there’s a lot of that.

Anthony Perl: (00:10:21) I mean you and I have interacted on LinkedIn and one of the interesting things about that is and and LinkedIn is moving further into this space is encouraging people more and more to use chat you know chat AIS to answer the comments and and I’ve tested it I’ve I’ve done a I’m going to put up a an article that’s been written by a chat.

Anthony Perl: (00:10:44) I’ve even done a mock interview with the chat where I recorded recorded one video where I put myself in between asking the questions but pre programmed questions that I’d had this you know, visual, visual, artificial intelligence answering and and what was interesting was that that the comments first of all comments don’t read videos so that.

Anthony Perl: (00:11:04) So if you’re putting up a video, they’re not they’re not taking that into consideration there and you’ve got an article that’s written by an AI with comments by an AI.

Anthony Perl: (00:11:15) What purpose does that serve anybody?

Anthony Perl: (00:11:18) It it, it doesn’t serve any purpose.

Anthony Perl: (00:11:20) And I think that that’s it’s kind of feeding into that whole idea of popularity for popularity’s sake.

Anthony Perl: (00:11:28) And it’s not even real.

Anthony Perl: (00:11:30) So I think there’s a, there’s a, you know, it all goes back to where we started the conversation is you have to unlock the genius and you have to tap into that and you have to make that relatable to people because if you don’t, what’s the point?

Simon Bowen : (00:11:45) So, you know, you think about LinkedIn.

Simon Bowen : (00:11:48) I’m very protective of my voice on LinkedIn.

Simon Bowen : (00:11:52) You know, I people know that that thinking is not generated by AI.

Simon Bowen : (00:11:59) People know the comments in LinkedIn.

Simon Bowen : (00:12:02) People know that I’m writing my emails that I send to my own list twice a week.

Simon Bowen : (00:12:07) In fact, people answer the emails and they go, does Simon write these emails?

Simon Bowen : (00:12:10) Because it really sounds like Simon.

Simon Bowen : (00:12:12) The answer is yes.

Simon Bowen : (00:12:12) I write the emails right?

Simon Bowen : (00:12:14) Because the market if if someone’s investing the time to look at ideas I share, then they deserve to be able to know that it was me that shared the ideas.

Simon Bowen : (00:12:28) And when when we respond on LinkedIn, I I want, you know, I I want the responses to, I place a lot of attention on.

Simon Bowen : (00:12:40) I want to pluck out one thing that’s going to shift the paradigm in response to the comment that was made and then my response to it.

Simon Bowen : (00:12:48) I just, I don’t just want to add content.

Simon Bowen : (00:12:51) I, you know, I either want to challenge the comment or validate it based on this tiny little paradigm shift, which is often.

Simon Bowen : (00:12:58) I’m looking for a throwaway quote that people are going to quote from that point on.

Simon Bowen : (00:13:03) Do you know what I mean?

Simon Bowen : (00:13:04) It’s like, you know when you draw, you draw people in.

Simon Bowen : (00:13:08) You can’t, you can’t help confuse people with more complexity.

Simon Bowen : (00:13:11) You know, I’m looking for something that people are going to go, oh, cheapest.

Simon Bowen : (00:13:15) That’s a that one thing, right?

Simon Bowen : (00:13:17) Chat’s not an AI response generator is not going to create that.

Simon Bowen : (00:13:21) It.

Simon Bowen : (00:13:21) It just can’t.

Simon Bowen : (00:13:22) And I was on, I was on.

Simon Bowen : (00:13:23) I was in a very small group call with Seth Godden and someone asked him about AI and he said, you know, AI.

Simon Bowen : (00:13:30) Like ChatGPT commoditises mediocrity.

Simon Bowen : (00:13:35) In other words, if you’re a copywriter and you’re and you’re predominantly relying on chat, now you’ve just become a mediocre copywriter.

Simon Bowen : (00:13:45) If you’re a you know.

Simon Bowen : (00:13:46) If you’re a consultant and you know you’re predominantly relying on chat, you just become a mediocre consultant.

Simon Bowen : (00:13:51) If you’re a contracts attorney and you predominantly use chat to write all your contracts, you become a mediocre contracts attorney unless you add contextual insight and wisdom on top of what chat’s done for you.

Simon Bowen : (00:14:05) So I think I love that idea that you raised about if the art, if the post was generated by chat and the comments being made on it were done by chat.

Simon Bowen : (00:14:13) But what service is it to humanity right now?

Simon Bowen : (00:14:17) Absolutely none other than ego based on, you know, popularity of the post, which I suppose has marketing value.

Simon Bowen : (00:14:25) And this of course everyone recognizes that it’s just an exchange between you know AI bots.

Simon Bowen : (00:14:30) So, but but having said all of that, this sounds like a beat up on AI.

Simon Bowen : (00:14:35) Far from it.

Simon Bowen : (00:14:36) I think it’s a fabulous tool.

Simon Bowen : (00:14:38) We have to be clever about what we do with it and we can’t afford to lose the human dimension to it that that is where the real value is going to add.

Simon Bowen : (00:14:50) We have to keep levelling up.

Simon Bowen : (00:14:51) We’ve got to keep, you know, we’ve got to keep pushing for the next level and you know not everyone wants to push for the next level of their own.

Simon Bowen : (00:15:01) If I was having a conversation with somebody who said I help CEOs of large companies, particularly tech companies to evolve personally because you know if if you want the company to double in value, you have to double in growth, personal growth as the CEO, that’s super interesting.

Simon Bowen : (00:15:17) So does that mean as their coach, you have to double in your own personal growth in order for you to be able to help them double in their personal growth, to help the company?

Simon Bowen : (00:15:24) And he went, oh wow, that’s kind of a wild tour.

Simon Bowen : (00:15:27) I hadn’t thought, well, yeah, I mean if that’s what you’re selling, that’s the game, right?

Simon Bowen : (00:15:32) AI is not going to give that to you, you know, it’s it’s it’s kind of interesting so well.

Anthony Perl: (00:15:37) I mean I’ve I’ve, I’ve found it you know for example in in helping people put together podcast series and we’re looking for for topics for them to discuss.

Anthony Perl: (00:15:44) So in in terms of doing that and saying OK, what are some popular topics that that people are asking questions about And then the guest that’s being interviewed on the on the program or in this case it’s their, it’s their podcast series.

Anthony Perl: (00:15:58) So I’m interviewing them.

Anthony Perl: (00:15:58) As for their own series where we are talking about topics that we know are popular that they’re providing their own spin on.

Anthony Perl: (00:16:07) You know, much like we’ve just been discussing chat and and AI, this is Simon’s spin on on that.

Anthony Perl: (00:16:15) And that’s where you get that authenticity and your take on it and that ability to understand your audience as well.

Anthony Perl: (00:16:23) Because I think that’s one of the other critical things that we talked about before that to being able to direct things at a specific audience.

Anthony Perl: (00:16:30) Because you know your audience that you’re trying to target.

Anthony Perl: (00:16:34) You know that is a an area where you can draw those experiences in and make them relatable And and people often forget those fundamentals that you know giving examples of you know if you were to have given me an example of I was working with a sole trader is very different to I was working with a with a large corporate and giving it those contexts and knowing who the audience is if if you’re already if if you’re talking to a whole room full of corporates and giving the example about the sole trader is a bit pointless and so that kind of level of stuff.

Anthony Perl: (00:17:08) I think there’s a there’s a great cross section between the what the two of us are are talking about and I love the fact that we’ve been on the on the same page here and I think we could probably talk for about another couple of hours about all of this and.

Simon Bowen : (00:17:21) So much to carry on podcast.

Anthony Perl: (00:17:24) Even make make a super long, super long podcast.

Anthony Perl: (00:17:27) So just before we wrap up, let me ask you there’s a question that I I try and ask most of my guests and I’d love to hear your response to it.

Anthony Perl: (00:17:37) What is the a heart moment that clients have when working with you that you wish people knew in advance that they were going to have it’s?

Simon Bowen : (00:17:46) It it it, there’s a there’s a moment that occurs every single time when the first iteration of their genius model pops out and all of the intuitive geniuses they’ve had for 25 years or 30 years or whatever has just appeared in front of them on a page in a model that they could talk through in 7 minutes or less.

Simon Bowen : (00:18:10) And.

Simon Bowen : (00:18:11) And and there’s this moment often where people, if it’s on zoom, they sit back, they throw their pen on the table and they go, I’ve been trying to explain that for 25 years and you just, you just pinned it in a model and I go, that’s what models do.

Simon Bowen : (00:18:24) That’s what models do.

Simon Bowen : (00:18:24) And that’s what we built the genius model to do.

Simon Bowen : (00:18:27) That to me is the moment that you can’t really express to people through marketing and things like that.

Simon Bowen : (00:18:33) This moment where people will see that the, the, the coalescence of their life’s work actually come together in this single framework that is so simple everyone will get it and understand the power of it.

Simon Bowen : (00:18:48) It’s that moment where they lean back, they throw their pen on the table in exasperation.

Simon Bowen : (00:18:52) How come I couldn’t build that model?

Simon Bowen : (00:18:54) It’s partly because I’m not.

Simon Bowen : (00:18:55) Then I’m outside of them looking in and I can see it differently.

Simon Bowen : (00:19:00) And we use models, you know, the models do the heavy lifting that require a level of thinking that language only and facilitation through words only will never get you to, you know.

Simon Bowen : (00:19:12) So it’s that.

Simon Bowen : (00:19:12) It’s that moment where people see the entire value of their life work coming to a single model, yeah.

Anthony Perl: (00:19:20) I love that, and it’s inspired me to go and pick up some of the models that I’ve been working on in different spaces and go on.

Anthony Perl: (00:19:28) Now I can combine them into one thing.

Anthony Perl: (00:19:30) So there’s a, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a genius there.

Anthony Perl: (00:19:34) Simon, thank you so much for an incredible discussion.

Anthony Perl: (00:19:37) I I really appreciate it.

Anthony Perl: (00:19:38) And we’re, of course, going to share lots of notes on how to get in touch with you and of course, how to follow you on LinkedIn and other and other places as well.

Anthony Perl: (00:19:47) So thank you so much for being so generous with your time Absolute.

Simon Bowen : (00:19:50) Pleasure.

Simon Bowen : (00:19:51) All right.

Simon Bowen : (00:19:52) Thanks very much.

Simon Bowen : (00:19:53) And you know, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the conversation about AI.

Simon Bowen : (00:19:57) It’s something we’re always talking about.

Simon Bowen : (00:19:58) So it was great to actually get your perspective.

Simon Bowen : (00:20:01) You’ve given me some more thoughts about that too, Anthony.

Simon Bowen : (00:20:03) So thank you so much as well.

Anthony Perl: (00:20:06) Biz Bites is brought to you by COM together for all your marketing needs so you can build your brand, engage audiences on multiple platforms.

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