Michelle Pascoe
Optimum Operating Procedures & Services (OOPS)
Training & Research
Join us as we explore the critical balance between automation and human touch in creating enduring customer relationships, the importance of leadership development, and strategies for future-proofing businesses in any sector. We dive into an enlightening conversation with the accomplished Michelle Pascoe. Celebrating her 30th year in business, Michelle sheds light on her extensive experience in the world of hospitality and tourism, as well as her passion for exceptional customer service. From navigating the evolving landscape of the industry to innovating through proprietary technology, Michelle shares the lessons learned and insights gained from her remarkable journey. Don’t miss out on this episode full of practical wisdom and actionable advice for elevating your customer service and ensuring the longevity of your business. Plus, stay tuned for an exclusive opportunity to access bonus content where Michelle reveals her three E’s of customer service.
Offer: Free Ebook – Future-Proofing Your Business: 10 actionable strategies to help you create a sustainable pipeline of future leaders, and build a culture of growth and excellence that will ensure the overall success and longevity of your business (Download at here.)
SUMMARY:
This episode of Biz Bites, hosted by CommTogether, features a discussion with Michelle, a seasoned expert in the hospitality and tourism industry, focusing on customer service, leadership development, and the evolution of businesses over three decades. Michelle shares her personal business journey, emphasizing the importance of aligning personal values with business operations and the transformation from traditional approaches to incorporating technology like proprietary software for mystery shopping. The conversation covers the challenges and opportunities in enhancing customer service, the significance of human connection in the era of automation, and strategies for future-proofing businesses by developing leaders from within, fostering a workplace of choice, and diversifying services. Michelle also introduces her hospitality podcast and her eBook on future-proofing businesses, sharing insights across sectors on improving customer experiences and internal team dynamics.
00:03 Welcome to Biz Bites: Engaging Stories in Business
00:49 Introducing Michelle: A Journey in Hospitality and Leadership
01:52 The Evolution of Customer Service and Leadership
04:52 Embracing Technology and Human Connection in Hospitality
09:25 The Challenges of Automation and Personalization
14:02 Online Customer Service: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
18:17 Loyalty and Customer Retention: Beyond the Discounts
27:31 Michelle’s Entrepreneurial Journey and Values
33:44 Future-Proofing Your Business: Insights and Strategies
37:54 The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast: A World of Insights
40:19 The Aha Moment with Michelle and Final Thoughts
TRANSCRIPT:
Anthony Perl: Welcome to Biz Bites brought to you by CommTogether, helping businesses like yours build their brand through telling amazing stories to engage and grow audiences on multiple platforms. Well, hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Biz Bites. And today we’re going to be talking to someone. Who’s familiar with the podcasting landscape and excited to hear a little bit more about her podcast, but more to the point, um, she’s really been in this hospitality and tourism space for a very long time and developing, uh, leadership skills in that space.
And there’s so much that we can learn whether you’re in that. Tourism industry or not. I think there’s so many takeaways for all of us there. So Michelle, welcome to the podcast.
Michelle Pascoe: Thank you, Anthony. I’m really looking forward to having this chat with you today. Yes. It’s 30 years this year. I’ve been in business.
It’s, it’s been crazy. It’s been a wonderful ride. What
Anthony Perl: a fantastic achievement 30 years. I mean, just right from the outset, I know that, um, Uh, I’ve only had my own business for 13 years, but, uh, been doing this for about 35. I think I worked out and, uh, it’s, it’s an amazing achievement though. 30 years is such a long time to be in this space.
And anyone that’s been in anyone out there in business will admire that because there aren’t many people that reach that kind of milestone.
Michelle Pascoe: Yes, I’m quite surprised. It doesn’t feel like 30 years. I’ll be honest, you know, because I still love every day, you know, when I’m working, but when I look back, I think, my gosh, you know, when I started all those years ago with a really young family, there’s no way that I would have thought, you know, I didn’t even think to me 30 years was just so far off.
So, yeah, but yes, I’m looking forward to having this conversation with you. Excellent.
Anthony Perl: Excellent. So tell me, Michelle, a little bit, I love to get people to sort of introduce their own business in a way that gives them drives into the passion of what they’re all about. So tell me what really drives you on a day to day basis and what’s the business about?
Michelle Pascoe: It’s all about the customer service. That’s what I love. It’s that is the foundation of my company. You and I. first began, you know, all those years ago, it was helping people how to answer the telephone effectively in the workplace. And you can imagine back then it was pre email and pre WiFi and everything else.
So I used to go out door knocking in industrial areas or picking up the telephone, going through the old fashioned yellow pages and how many people just didn’t create that first impression, which is absolutely key when it comes to the telephone. Even before they get to see you. So I knew right from that very start that even though I had thought of different ideas for business, that foundation was always going to be about that customer service and the experience that it provides not only to our external customers, but also to our internal teams.
And then over these You know, three decades, predominantly working in the hospitality and tourism industry. I’ve been really blessed to be working with multi generational teams, Anthony. You know, I’ve had teams in the room where they’ve been 18 to 81. And when you think about all those generations working together, I just love that.
So, you know, apart from the training, you know, the front line in lots of industries, it’s just that I’ve really niched down into hospital and tourism over the years. It’s looking at how can we then create these amazing experiences, but then develop our leadership skills. from within. So, you know, once again, over the years developed then additional programs are bringing those from the frontline right through to CEOs and being, you know, with so many people over these decades, they’re taking me on the personal journey, which has been phenomenal.
So there’s that part of it. But then I also wanted to think, Anthony, how do I actually see You know, when you train somebody, there’s always this bit of a fun idea, you know, oh, they’re really excited for that, they get to that six week mark of a life, plateau, well, disappear, or they may keep going, yes, you know, I’ve, you know, I’ve transformed one person.
So I created my own proprietary software. Well, let’s put it this way. I had a programmer who did, I had all the ideas, but I needed somebody to be in the back end. So I created my own proprietary software, which for layman’s terms is a mystery shopping report, but it can be up to 600 pages. So that looks at every specific heart of your business, both service, market, marketing, compliance, and image.
So the both of them, you know, that, that passion that I have for customer service, that leadership, and then, and then, you know, supported by the, the research component has brought me along on this, this wonderful journey. So here I am.
Anthony Perl: All together. Yes. There you are. And so, and so much to unpack. I mean, we’ll just go through every page of the 600 page report, won’t we?
What I find really interesting is, is that I think that, um, business in general always has a lot to learn from, I think the, the hospitality sector in particular, because it’s very frontline focused and yet the gulf between the two seems to be getting greater because we seem to have this push to rely on, um, Automations on, um, you know, outsourcing lots of bits and pieces of the work.
And so that front line, where is the real benefit? As you say, it’s when you pick is as simple as still picking up the phone seems to be lost. I’m, I’m, I’m interested to know whether you see that gulf and whether in many respects, I wonder whether, Also, that gulf is also dragging the hospitality trade towards what business are doing in favour of should be going back the other way.
Michelle Pascoe: It’s quite, I think that I think there’s a bit of pull and, um, to and fro between all industries. Hospitality is very interesting and you’re right, you know, We should look at them because they deal with so many different generations, so many different beliefs and values, not only in their teams, but also those that they are serving.
And we’ve found, you know, coming out of COVID that unfortunately, uh, many customers are not as tolerant as they once were, and therefore believe that you are A servant instead of serving them. So, you know, we’ve found in an industry that closed first, open, uh, last, it’s very, uh, you know, it’s still quite hard to entice people or to not sort of much of entice, but to attract people in to the industry, but it is amazing.
It has so many wonderful opportunities. So when you talk about AI and all these resources that we’re looking for, I love it in, you know, the part of my business where I use AI and I absolutely love it where we’ve seen it being used in hospitality. That would most of your listeners would know about is that QR code for ordering, which is really cool.
You know, before it was interesting, I brought out a QR code about 10 years ago and everybody goes, Oh, I don’t know what this is. And then only because of that pandemic, we all learn how to use one. So we see that now as this opportunity where people. Don’t have to line up because let’s think about our Gen Zs.
They want a seamless experience, Anthony. So lining up for 10 to 15 minutes to order is just blows their minds. So where they can sit down, order off that QR code, pay for it directly, That’s fantastic. And we see so many hospitality businesses doing that. However, that meal still has to be delivered by someone.
And that’s where we had this opportunity to connect. Now, some places run both still order from the counter or that QR code, but that’s where that first impression comes in when that’s the delivery of that plate. To the table. How it’s presented. What, you know, what’s that, what’s that body language telling you as that person puts the plate down?
You know, is it just dropped and they duck off? Or do they, you know, they plate it down correctly so it looks lovely. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a hatted restaurant or whether it is, you know, a tiny cafe. That presentation of that meal should be absolutely perfect. So, the chef who’s gone to the trouble of getting the produce, making this beautiful meal, it’s presented well.
And then, you know, saying to the person, you know, enjoy your meal, and then walking off, checking back in on people. So, there is this connection between AI and using, you know, um, QR codes, et cetera, for speed and for efficiency, but it’s still important to have that connection with the person. And it’s quite interesting, Anthony, I travel to America a lot, you know, speaking at conferences or attending and we were.
In Nashville, uh, last year, we do a food tour in Chicago and then went to Nashville. We were behind the scenes of a couple of big hotels. And we said, wow, how backward are they? You know, they don’t use QR codes. And they said, no, cause we just don’t want them. Because once we have a QR code, we lose that total connection with.
Our diners, whereas come in, take the order, of course, they’re looking for that tip at the end. Um, but it, but more than just the tip, it’s that building that connection where they can upsell the dessert, upsell a beverage. So it’s nice to have automation, but we all still need that human connection. Oh, that’s
Anthony Perl: really interesting.
You say that about the, about the upsell, because Uh, I see that so rarely. And, um, I think one of the other interesting parts about that full automation process is that it doesn’t allow for customisation. And I mean, which is something that, you know, again, these are lessons for business anywhere, no matter what type of business you are.
And so, you know, these days we know dietary requirements are a big thing. And so, you know, is it possible to have this on the side or to not include this or whatever the variations may be. Um, you lose that if you’re doing that in a, in a QR code, it’s very hard to type that in, and to have that back and forth and get that response.
Um, but also that ability to adapt, um, as someone who, who does have a lactose intolerance. And I, and, uh, and I think That over the years, I’ve only been to a restaurant once where they’ve actually accommodated and in the desserts, which has been really interesting where we got to got to desserts. And, you know, I’m just got a sweet tooth and, um, everyone else was ordering something.
And I said, Oh, is there anything? You know, that’s that’s lactose free. And usually the standard response is, oh, we have some sorbet and fruits. And I’m going, I’m not paying 25 for a scoop of, you know, of 50 cents worth of sorbet that I can have at home. Once I got a situation, so let me go and talk to the chef and the chef came and they came back and said, look, we can do X, Y, Z.
And it was so amazing. It did. It took the chef all of about five minutes to make that I said to them after, do you have to put this on the menu? Because everyone else was looking at me going, Oh my God, how did you get that? Why can’t we have that? And I think, and I think that’s the thing too, that it does create opportunities, doesn’t it?
You lose that. So there is a balance between. What’s going to make a process a little bit quicker, but losing that ability to adapt.
Michelle Pascoe: Yes, definitely. And I love that. You know, that first, that white person has gone back to the chef and said, you know, can we do something? And then that chef’s thought of something, you know, and.
Ideally, as you said, may well be on the future menu. And the more and more that we see of dietary requirements, you know, I don’t have an intolerance. I’m just a really darn fussy eater. So I find it really hard on QR codes because there’s so many things I’m going to take off. I just sort of think, Oh, no, forget it.
I’ll just stand up at the cash register and hopefully, you know, they’ll get it in right. But you know, it makes me laugh. And when I used to take my children, when I first started business, you know, to McDonald’s birthday parties. And I used to go up and say, look, can I have a cheeseburger? But take off the pickles, the mustard, the onion, and they go, lady, pick it off yourself.
Literally that that’s what the response would be. Whereas now you can go to that wonderful book, but I still find that hard to work out. So I just go through drive work through.
Anthony Perl: So yeah, it’s, it’s, it is, isn’t it? It’s like, um, uh, and that’s the thing too, is, is that. A lot of the time people are so focused on business and again, in hospitality as well, obviously about the numbers, let’s get through as many people as quickly as possible and fall into the standard and that’s okay, but I think you need to be able to, I mean, how hard is it on a menu to be out for, as, as, for example, to have a button saying, look, we need some special assistance.
Could you send a waiter over and that, you know, that would, You know, navigate some of those issues because the majority of people probably won’t hit that button. Um, you know, but we’ve got so used to this idea of, of, um, quick service and getting through things quickly. Um, and I find that fascinating that, I mean, that really started, I guess, you know, if we’re talking hospitality, that really started with the likes of McDonald’s, didn’t it?
Where this whole idea of, of speed was everything, but now that’s coming back a That speed is, isn’t necessarily as big a driver as it was, so even McDonald’s can afford to have their cafe where you’re going to have to wait a few minutes to get whatever it is that you’re, that you’ve ordered. Yes,
Michelle Pascoe: I think people have realised that they’re wanting, they’re wanting quality.
They want that value for money. People don’t mind paying that little bit extra, but they want to, they want to enjoy it. They just want to take that moment, but it certainly has to be that seamless experience when it comes to ordering, you know, whether it is, you know, at the table with a white person or QR code or at the register, they don’t want any hiccups.
They just want to make that. Smooth and then be delivered to the table. If we can just take a moment to talk about online as well, you know, because I know you probably have a number of listeners, not just hospitality based, but you know, so many companies have online inquiry forms. Oh, I, I, I do a lot of mystery shopping and online, if you’re going to have one, please let me ask you this.
How long are you taking to get back to them? And are you just cutting and pasting just a question and an answer? Or are you actually thinking about? This person has contacted me. Are you sending back an immediate response saying, you know, uh, thank you for your message. We’ll be back with you within two hours.
If you’re looking, if you’re a function house, if you’re not back to them really within the hour, they’ve moved on. And this is what we’ve got to think about online is wonderful and having these automation and having many chats and chat bots and it sounds fantastic, but we are dealing with people who have got feelings that have got emotions and need something now.
So if we promise them that we’re going to deliver something, do that. You know what I also find really frustrating when it comes to lack of customer service, everything is when you do purchase something. There’s no contact button. Now, this is even for some massive global companies. You can’t ring anybody.
You if you can find a contact button with an email that hopefully we responded to. It’s like finding a diamond in a coal mine. You know. Yes. And you think Why are you making it so hard? You’ve created this seamless experience where we can order, but if anybody’s got, yes, something that’s maybe a little bit more specialised, they may have a frequently asked question page, which is fantastic.
But if there’s an issue, why don’t we have it and make it easier for people to find us? Sure, you may not want to have a phone call all the time, but make it, make it so that that email address that you’re giving them to contact actually goes to somebody that.
Anthony Perl: Open set. Oh, Michelle, you’ve hit on some sore points in the past two weeks alone.
I’ve had several of these issues and it’s, and it’s very interesting that, you know, one particular business, um, who I’ve contacted and, uh, with the potential to make some, you know, a series of purchases through them. You know, tumbleweeds from them, uh, managed to find a phone number and left that a message there and still nothing, um, a bigger organisation where they do have a phone number.
I’ve tried online, I’ve tried phone numbers and every time, even if you’ve got a case number, they’re starting the process again to the point where on the weekend after I’ve had about, I think, all up between chats and 10 different engagements where they actually said to me, Oh, can you just remind us of.
What this is. You know, the, the name of the thing that it’s about. I’m going, are you kidding? Like, and every time the problem is, is every time the answer is, is, are we going to do X? And it’s the same thing every time. And we’re going to escalate it to this department. I’m like, but you escalated to the department who still do X again.
How many times are we going to keep repeating the same thing to work out that that’s not working? Um, And, uh, you know, and it’s interesting too, when you say, well, you’ve now wasted about 10 hours of my time. I’ll be sending you the bill for that. Um, will you be paying? It’s, it’s, it’s a disrespect, I think.
And that’s what it comes down to a disrespect for people’s time. And, uh, and, and, a feeling of self importance in your own business that you’re not worthy of your client’s time or potential client’s time.
Michelle Pascoe: Yeah. And time is the thing that we’ve all got that same 24 hours. It’s how we use it. And it feels like there’s less and less.
You know, we’ve got so much more and more to do, so there’s less and less time to do the things that we need responses to in, you know, in a reasonable time. You know, I don’t think you’re being unreasonable, but to spend all that time on the phone or emails trying to speak to people and you still haven’t had the issue resolved.
You think to yourself, then they wonder why they’re losing business. They wonder why, you know, they’ve got to go out. and get more customers. And that’s probably the biggest thing I find. We, we spend, as you know, in marketing, Anthony, we spend a phenomenal amount of money in marketing and getting new customers instead of drilling down into who have we already got that we could sell another widget to?
Who have we already delivered a program to that we could offer? Well, this is the next part or, you know, but instead we have to reinvent the wheel. And I think, You know, for many businesses, they always put out these wonderful specials just for new people, new clients. We’re going to give you 20 percent off on new clients.
You’re going to get this bonus. And you sit there as a client, perhaps of that same organisation for 1, 10, 20 years. And you think to yourself, but what are you giving to me for all my loyalty to you? that I have given you as a customer. And don’t worry about the six coffee for free. I’m not talking about that.
I’m talking about what is that loyalty that you’re giving me? Because we always as business owners, you know, we’re seeking our customers loyalty, but that’s always, that’s always been a bugbear for me. What are we giving to our loyal customers? All we want to do is get new people, give them a, you know, this lovely surprise and delight.
What are we doing to surprise and delight those long term customers?
Anthony Perl: It’s really interesting, isn’t it? Because, uh, you know, thinking about it on the weekend, I went to the supermarket. Why don’t you say which chain, but went to the supermarket and they all have their rewards. Um, you know, the constant reminders, as soon as, you know, now you have to scan things in yourself.
Uh, so make you do all of the work. And, uh, and they say, don’t forget to, you know, to put in your rewards card and you put it in and you get to the end of it and they say, oh, it’s 10 off your bill if you want to use the points and you think about it and go. I could have just reduced the prices everywhere and that 10 wouldn’t have been, wouldn’t have, you know, they’re just trying to make me feel good about the fact that they’ve, you know, increased their prices everywhere.
Has it driven any loyalty? Is there anything they’re giving me? In fact, many of those organisations, the points expire. So you’re not even, um, you know, I’ve been a member of some of these clubs for a long, long time. When was the last time I received any message from them that just said, Oh, you know, exactly that.
We want to delight and surprise you in some way. Um, almost never, almost never.
Michelle Pascoe: That’s right and it’s really disappointing because once again you’ve been a long term client of theirs or customer and therefore why do those points disappear? Now some in membership programs they have to be for some organisations because that’s just part of the, you know, the program and hopefully you’re being alerted of that but for others like Other chain, other supermarkets, they just disappear and you think, but I spent that money with you.
So why, why has it disappeared? You know, I think there’s a lovely airline that I’ve been, you know, a member of for many, many years. I think I started flying with them when, you know, more than 50 years ago as a very young child. And I missed out by the next level by one credit point. One, just one. Mind you, I had a whole.
A lot of our flights coming up after that date, wouldn’t you think there would have been just some sort of, you know, interaction with, well, you know, guess what, Mrs. Pascoe, you’re one off, but we’re going to give you that for 50 years of dedicated loyalty, but no.
Anthony Perl: It’s back to zero. And I think that’s the interesting thing, isn’t it?
Because I know you talk about, um, consistency in, in how people respond and maintaining those standards, but it is at the same time being able to adapt where certain situations exactly like that, that you’ve said, uh, do and, and it’s like, Um, I had, uh, you can consistency in how they respond is one thing, but how not adapting is another, and I’ll give you the perfect example in a travel scenario.
Last year. I, I, I traveled overseas. I was away for several weeks. Uh, unfortunately, in the 1st leg of my journey, my suitcase got smashed in. Right. And so there was no way that I could continue to use it. What did the airline do? First of all, it took them a long time to respond to which they then gave me a voucher for a new suitcase in Sydney.
I was going to be overseas for six weeks. They knew my return ticket. They knew when I was returning to Australia and, oh yes, you’ve got a voucher for here. And I said, well, first of all, it doesn’t pay for the suitcase. Second of all, I need a suitcase in the next two days. I’m going to have to go and purchase one because I cannot travel with what is left here.
You know, literally, literally anybody could stuff anything into my suitcase because there were gaping big holes in it. Um, so it was, you know, it, it, it was like, well, that’s just a security risk and, um, not something that we continue with. And it was like, it was so bizarre that it took, I don’t think I got a satisfactory response.
I’m pretty sure it was after I got back, you know, till I finally got, uh, them to say, oh, Yes, we’ll give you some money towards the purchase that you made of the suitcases. That’s like, really? You could have made that process so much easier. Because they just kept to a process that they have. This is the guidelines.
This is what we follow. We can’t veer out of that. We haven’t looked at a. a specific circumstance and gone, what, what, how can we respond?
Michelle Pascoe: Yes. And, you know, and it’s so disappointing. What it’s reflected on upon though, is empowering. Those frontline team members that they can make these decisions and a lot of that, that decision making has been taken off them, but we’re seeing more and more that it is coming back.
They need that. They need to be trusted by their leadership team. So this is where it’s really important when we’re developing these leaders that they’re also understanding it’s not just telling the frontline people what to do. It’s how do they engage them and how do they empower them that. They can reduce a lot of the leader’s work by handling a lot of those processes and systems instead of just sticking to the spiel of, well, this is what we can offer you, or having, like we were saying right at the start, calls escalated to management when management will support that frontline person when, you know, the decisions made are that, yes, we’re going to give Anthony, you know, 200, you know, say, for his suitcase, and then the management would go, totally agree.
Okay. But it’s after the thought, you know, but it’s thinking about what is that impact and that’s what we talk about that intuitive service, you know, we provide service to our customers on a more of a, well, this is, you know, we’re not going to make it a transaction. We’re going to make it, you know, an intentional, you know, Opportunity to talk to them.
But let’s think about making it really intuitive. Have a look around, you know, they’re coming in with the child. Is there something that you can provide for that child? Or are they coming in and you know, what age group are they? What would interest them? What’s something that you could let them know? Have a conversation with people, but also, you know, when they come into your, you know, your business, whatever it might be, and that they could be a little bit cranky because they haven’t had parking or they got wet or whatever it might be, or it’s hot and coming and what were you, you know, what too many people do when they’re on that front line is, Oh, I’ve just got to ignore them because, you know, it’s not my fault.
It’s not my fault. And, and no, it’s not your fault, but it’s now your problem because they’re in your business and they’re getting upset. And some of them can be really loud and attract other customers around them going, Oh gee, we’re not going in there because something’s happening. It’s best to acknowledge it and say them, Oh, I know, I know the parking, it can be dreadful, but you know what?
I’m so glad you’re here. How can we help you today? Do you know, you know, if it’s coming into a restaurant. Did you know that we have got the most amazing specials on today? Let me take you to your table now. Or if it’s in a shop. Oh, I know, you know, the parking’s bad. But you know, you’re here now. Is there something that you were looking for?
You know, that suits this hot weather. We’ve got some new clothing in. Like, think about it. So, acknowledge the problem is, have a conversation about what you can offer and then start moving them along away from that entry point away from the foyer, whatever it might be, move them into your store and have a conversation and the person I’m not going to say it’s going to fix them immediately.
But they’ve been heard and that’s all people want to hear. They just want to know that you’ve heard them and they take a big sigh and then they move on.
Anthony Perl: Absolutely. Absolutely. Now I want to continue on some of those things, but I just want to point out to, uh, to listeners as well that we’re going to get back into in a moment about, we’re going to give you some access to, uh, to an ebook that.
Michelle’s, um, uh, pulled together on future proofing your business. And we’ll come back to that in a little bit, as well as for those of you that, uh, stick around at the end, you’ll know how to access some additional bonus content, and there’s some true gold that we’re going to give away there. But I really wanted to take you back.
Back, Michelle, to the beginning, we’ve talked about 30 years ago that you started, but where did the journey start from the beginning? How did you, how did you get into this space? Was, what was the, you know, leaving school? What was the, what was the goal? Where did you head from there? Oh my
Michelle Pascoe: gosh. Yeah. So I, I’ve got three much older brothers and, you know, being that the little girl and I grew up on a Turkey farm of all places in rural New South Wales and I went to school in Sydney, finished my HSC, but I think I was more interested in Didn’t boys and music, but anyway, I tried my very best, but I, I, I didn’t know really what I wanted to do, but I knew I had to have something that would carry me into a role that was, you know, that was needed.
And so I went to a private secretarial college in Sydney and I really did work darn hard, you know, uh, that whole year I worked. You know, got the typing speed up, the shorthand and everything in between. And right at the end of, of that unit, what, you know, it was an expensive course for what it was back in 1980.
And this, the, the college came out and wrote a letter to the parents saying, we have a new thing. It’s called word processing. Now, if your daughter would like to do this, cause it was only a female secretarial college, it’s a, it was quite, it was more than a thousand dollars. To do this very short course on using the Vyondec 1200 or something like that.
So my parents thought this was, you know, they knew this was going to be the future, which was, you know, that we, we just didn’t have that. We didn’t have word processors back then.
Anthony Perl: I remember those days.
Michelle Pascoe: It was the size of an LP record. That was the size of the memory disc, went under the desk. Anyway, to cut a long story short, it was the best thing because I went overseas, traveled the world in 1982.
When I came back, I was earning between 25 and 35 an hour. This is 1982. Mind you, because I was one of the very few people that knew quite, probably six different forms of word processes, like lanyard and word, but things that were books that no longer exist, but that was the start. So I got into marketing Westfield, you know, um, the national marketing manager, but then the time moves on and, you know, married children.
And I find myself in a situation where. I was still traveling back and forth into Sydney at this stage, I’m sole parent and I’m thinking I’ve got to find something closer. So I went for a role that I was highly qualified for. And he asked me, well, back then, it was still handwritten, he wanted the application to be in handwriting.
And so after a, uh, you know, an opportunity to go and have an interview with this presumably future boss, which was not very pleasant because he ripped apart my handwriting, made me feel absolutely belittled. And mind you at this stage I’m now 32, so I’m not a child. I’m not a child. I left that thinking, you know what, even though the money’s good and it’s close to home and my mother was in full stage of cancer.
So I really wanted to get home. I knew that my values were not congruent with that business. And that was the start. And I literally opened my doors the next day because I realised then Anthony, that your values have to be congruent with the organisation that you are. that you own or that you work for.
And they’re, you know, so I started, I started, you know, I got my little trifold folder. I printed off. I’ve always had really good business cards. Oh, that’s always been perfect. But I started because I realised that I could build something myself and gee, it was hard there at the start, you know, but I persevered and all because of that one interview and having that background of typing, et cetera.
But it was that values based and knowing that there would, yeah, it just wouldn’t work. And so I’m very values based. Trainer and conference speaker. That’s, that’s me in a nutshell. I’ve continued that through 30 years. So that’s where it’s been. It’s been a journey.
Anthony Perl: Quite a journey. And what about the, you spoke about your brothers, but what about your parents is, is the, was the entrepreneurial spirit and, and, uh, and hospitality, were they part of what they were about as well?
Um,
Michelle Pascoe: look, certainly entrepreneurial. You know, my father had, uh, returned from the second world war. And at that stage, you know, my mother was looking after two very young. There were my two oldest brothers and my father went into business straight away, coming back from the war. His parents were in business.
My mother’s parents were in business and out of my three big brothers, two of them went into business. And so it was always that, that belief that you can do it. You know, and, and that was, it was important. I know not all those, everybody has that opportunity, you know, whether they be family or friends that support them, there’s a lot of naysayers in this world, Anthony out there.
And, and sometimes they can be our loved ones and it’s not because they don’t think we can do it. They are worried if we can’t, how it’s going to impact on us. But I was fortunate, you know, I did, um, even though I lost my mother before, you know, I started the business, my father was always there, even though, you know, he was getting older, fantastic support, looking after my little children and, you know, until I remarried, but it was always that, you know what, Michelle, you can do this.
You know, I didn’t go to university, but I’ve done well, worked hard at Secretarial’s College. And I, and I believe in what I can do. And I’ve had teams of up to 70 employees pre COVID. At 25 and that’s wonderful. Uh, but you know, it’s, it’s been a journey of not only developing myself, connecting with my customers and their clients, but But it’s also being developing myself as a leader and a CEO.
And, and that was a challenge at the start, but yeah, I’ve got a really good team. Now, I hope they think I’m a good boss.
Anthony Perl: Well, we’ll, we’ll invite them to share comments. No, we won’t do that. I’m sure that I’m sure that I’m sure they will all speak very highly of you. Um, uh, Michelle, I wanted to, uh, ask you a little bit about, um, the ebook just very briefly for people.
Um, because I think there’s an enormous amount of value in this, not just for people in the hospitality trade, but you know, this whole concept of future proofing your business and some. And some strategies to implement, um, from your vast amount of experience. I think there’s a lot that people can learn from that.
So just give us a bit of an overview as to what’s in that. So people can get to it and download it.
Michelle Pascoe: Yes. And, and have a look through it. Look what, uh, why I wrote it was really to look at people, as I said, are still fighting across many industries. It is hard to attract and then retain the team. So, but then also not just the frontline, but also developing.
Getting leaders, you know, trying to employ people that have already been a leadership role to come into your business, develop them from within. So thinking about that future proofing, what can you do right now? Look at the generations that you have in your team. How, how does your, what is your organisation saying about it, itself, that will attract people?
How are you connecting with them? What is, you know, if somebody came into your business and, you know, as I said to you, ask my staff what they think of me, what would people? Think about, you know, you and your business, if they asked your frontline team. So by thinking about all these things, you are now going to future proof your business to make it a workplace of choice, where you’re going to have people coming to you, Anthony, saying, I want to work here because, you know, my friends work here, or I’ve been a customer here.
And, you know, I know that. Every time I come in, everybody is smiling. There’s, you know, considerate conversations between team members, their support of them. That’s really important. But it’s also then looking at developing those from within. As I said at the start, we can’t just rely on employing somebody else’s manager to come into our business.
Think about those that are in your business now that You know, they may not always know that they have that potential within them. And I think that’s where it’s really important is that as a leader, it’s also seeing that potential in somebody and igniting that potential and giving them that opportunity.
Because I don’t think there could be a better leader than somebody who has come through, you know, that, that frontline. Who knows the team, we now need to, you know, step them up into that leadership role and then they are there, they know the culture, they are a part of that, and they believe in the vision, the values, the goals, and they model all those attributes that we have and those actions and behaviours that are linked to our values.
So when we’re thinking about that future proofing, it’s not just about. Oh, well, you know, do we have to, how are we going to grow our bottom line? Because, you know, a lot of businesses are being impacted at the moment, Anthony, because they have just, you know, relied on one customer or one service to somebody.
So let’s think about what other, um, services they could perhaps offer. What is the perhaps in collaboration with other businesses and then looking at, you know, how can we diversify our business? All of the little things will add up into that one big thing of having future growth, but still be having our doors open because we need to, to future proof our
Anthony Perl: businesses.
Absolutely. And I love that. I know there’s going to be so much gold for people to download there. And I’m thinking about my own, you know, that’s how a podcast done for you came about in the past year was literally through being asked to do it for one client. And then suddenly having a few other people asking, and now we have a new product range that’s become the focus of the business.
Uh, so it’s very important. Now, I, I, the people who, uh, are prepared to stick around, uh, well, who are going to Uh, have to, uh, log in and see the show notes, how to access some bonus content. We’re going to be talking about, um, I’m not going to give it away the three E’s of customer service, but I know you’re going to need to listen into that.
So you’re going to have to follow the show notes as to how to get access to that as some bonus content for the show. Thank you. Um, but also just quickly before we finish up, Michelle, tell me a little bit about the podcast, because I always love list hearing about other podcasts. So what’s your podcast been about?
Cause I know you said it’s been going for about four years now.
Michelle Pascoe: Yes. Yes. A couple of different names, but it has been going, uh, for four years. So it’s called the Michelle Pascoe hospitality podcast, Anthony. And really it is for any industry, but as I’ve said, you know, I love that hospitality industry. So I’ve.
You know, at first I interviewed a number of the senior managers in the industry, both here in Australia and globally. And then I wanted to start bringing in, I’ve interviewed some frontline people, but marketing, branding people, some amazing chefs, uh, including John McFadden, who is the top chef of the world now.
He’s won it twice now in America. Some even local people, we’ve got Eilish Maloney down here in the Southern Highlands, whose business is called the What If Society. And this is a restaurant, well it’s a restaurant cafe, it only holds I think 17 people, doesn’t even have a menu. And I mean, I’ve got, I’m sure Anthony, you’re thinking, I don’t know about going there, but that’s what I said to Eilish, you know.
I’m really fussy eater. You’ve got to trust her. You’ve got to trust the chef and using, you know, that farm to plate that whole concept. You know, I’ve just had a person talking about learning links, which is how, you know, we can support children in, you know, throughout Australia with learning difficulties, you know, whether it’s reading or writing or, or arithmetic.
And so I love having diverse people that I can speak to and having them provide strategies, tips, but also sharing their journey. Like, you know, if you’ve allowed me here to do to Anthony in, you know, whether it’s a small business or it’s a large corporation or the senior CEOs, whoever they may be is what is the drive?
What is the purpose? And how does that connect them with whether it’s a team that they’re leading or whether it’s across the counter to their customer, no matter what industry is. So yes, I love it.
Anthony Perl: It’s always a lot of fun. Fantastic. Well, I, I definitely will be listening in and I, and, uh, um, and I encourage people to do so as well.
We’ll, we’ll include all of these links in the show notes. So I just want to wrap up the, the, uh, the main part of the podcast with the final question that I like to ask my guests. So what’s the aha moment that clients have when they start working with you that you wish more of them knew about that they were going to have in advance?
Michelle Pascoe: Oh, the aha moment. I think because I listen to them. I know I love talking and I’m sure everybody thinks Jesus or whatever was the moment he press record, but I listen to them and then I weave in. My stories, my connections, my learning, the knowledge that I’ve experienced both here in Australia and globally, whether it’s through different associations, different conferences that I’ve spoken at or that I’ve attended doing, you know, courses at Disney.
I bring all that back and I love sharing that. So when I sit there with clients, it’s not just going, Oh, I know what I can do for you. It’s tell me about your business. And then how can we connect? Yeah, sure. I’ve got all these services that I can show you on my website, but it’s my business. It’s the same as my software.
You know, it’s, I can create any question you like. I think I’ve created over 12, 000 questions over all these years because this is me. And so I want to ensure that you get the, the information that you require or the information that I impart that will make a difference to your business and certainly your team and your customers.
Anthony Perl: Fantastic. I love that, Michelle. There’s so much more that we can explore. We are going to explore the three E’s of customer service, uh, in the bonus content. So people will have to click on the link below in the, in the show notes in order to get ahold of that in the meantime. Thank you so much for being an amazing guest and, uh, filling us with so much information.
And I think any business, regardless of what they’re in has so much to learn about customer service and how to do it well, particularly from the hospitality sector. So thank you for sharing.
Michelle Pascoe: Thank you so much for this opportunity, Anthony, and I wish all your listeners all the best in their
Anthony Perl: business.
Thank you and everyone, and of course, stay tuned for the next episode of Biz Bites. Biz Bites is brought to you by comm together for all your marketing needs, so you can build your brand, engage audiences on multiple platforms. Go to commtogether.com.au, follow the links to book an appointment for a free consultation.