Expertise Empire – Part 2

Summary:

– This episode provides an overview of the main points discussed in the transcript.

– It covers Steve Brossman’s background and career path, podcasting strategies and quality, energy and passion in podcasting, the importance of engaging conversations in podcasting, communicating with the audience, and leveraging relationships in marketing.

Topics:

1. Steve Brossman’s Background and Career Path:

– Steve Brossman’s transition into business after a back injury ended his professional athletic career.

– His love for the fitness industry led him to franchise kids clubs and weight loss programs.

– Steve’s successful stint on regional TV and later on Channel 9, hosting and producing his own show.

– Warner Brothers approached him to create a show, which is still on air after 10 years.

– Steve’s experience in effectively communicating his message during interviews and being a profitable interviewee.

– His current role in helping others in the health and fitness industry.

2. Podcasting Strategies and Quality:

– The importance of developing a podcast strategy that yields quality content and returns.

– Examples of poorly executed podcasts, such as pre-recorded cut-and-paste questions and answers.

– The trend of turning podcasts into TV shows, with the example of the Maddie Johns podcast.

3. Energy and Passion in Podcasting:

– The significance of energy and banter between hosts in creating engaging podcasts.

– The contrast between pre-recorded, low-energy podcasts and live, high-energy conversations.

– The need for hosts to demonstrate their passion rather than simply stating it.

– The impact of passion on audience engagement.

Transcript:

Anthony perl: I hope you’ve had a chance to listen to part one of this interview on Biz Bites.

Anthony perl: Stay tuned now for Part 2.

Anthony perl: Welcome to Biz Bites, brought to you by CommTogether, helping businesses like yours build their brand through telling amazing stories to engage and grow audiences on multiple platforms.

Anthony perl: Steve, I wanted to ask you a little bit and delve into your background a little bit because we kind of touched on it the other day off air when you and I were speaking.

Anthony perl: But you’ve got a fascinating background and you’ve done lots of different things and our paths sort of almost sort of have crossed several times, I I suspect so.

Anthony perl: So take me back.

Anthony perl: What was the where, where did you start out?

Anthony perl: What was the starting point for your career?

Steve Brossman: Well, I say I got into business by accident and it was actually an accident.

Steve Brossman: I was a professional athlete training for the Los Angeles Olympics, doing too much of the wrong training and basically crushed 3 discs in my back one day, 10 foot tall and bulletproof.

Steve Brossman: The next day I couldn’t get out of bed.

Steve Brossman: It’s like, oh, and then through rehab I fell in love with the fitness industry and I fell in love with that and thought I could do this, I could do it differently, I could do it better.

Steve Brossman: I was a pretty brash, cocky young kid back then.

Steve Brossman: And in the early stages I franchised a kids club into five countries and weight loss program into two and just created programs.

Steve Brossman: And I’ll stick to the the sequence that got me here in the Hunter Valley, Newcastle, we had NBN Channel 3, the regional TV station.

Steve Brossman: They had a three hour kids Saturday morning segment and I thought they should have a activity, they should have a workout segment for the kids.

Steve Brossman: So I sent them a proposal.

Steve Brossman: I think they got it the Friday, I was in their office by the Tuesday and we were filming the following Wednesday.

Steve Brossman: So I guess they liked it.

Anthony perl: Which is crazy by the way.

Anthony perl: Anyone that’s ever worked in any in in TV, I’ve never seen anything move that fast before.

Anthony perl: So that’s that’s quite amazing.

Steve Brossman: Yeah, we had a four week trial that actually lasted until aggregation took over 2 1/2 years later in Channel 9, amalgamated everything.

Steve Brossman: But that was really interesting.

Steve Brossman: It was a great learning because as a a live person now I could get up in front.

Steve Brossman: I could have 600 kids virtually eating out of my hands, doing an activity workout, etcetera, But I had to think about, OK, I’ve got three big cameras here.

Steve Brossman: I got eight kids behind me that I had to sort of teach.

Steve Brossman: I got all these kids at home.

Steve Brossman: I had big dog over here that I had to sort of try and talk to as well as like what was going on.

Steve Brossman: But I thought, hey, I’ve got this, I’ve got this covered, I can do it.

Steve Brossman: And then the first day, I went up to the edit suite as I were editing and I thought, oh, that’s boring.

Steve Brossman: It was what wasn’t happening going through the lens.

Steve Brossman: And that’s one of the things that we teach is like how to get you through the lens.

Steve Brossman: So for two years, I actually spent three hours, and not just my half hour filming, I’d spent another 2 1/2 hours watching the editing, watching the pros how they did it and really absorbing what it was.

Steve Brossman: And there was a life bigger and better than just that segment.

Steve Brossman: And after a number of years of knocking on doors and you know what the TV world’s like?

Steve Brossman: Knocking on doors, kicking down doors and whatever, Channel 9 said, Yep, we love it.

Steve Brossman: You can host and produce this show, which was the one that I wrote.

Steve Brossman: So we had a a live stint for six months on a network show, Channel 9 Saturday mornings.

Steve Brossman: And then as networks do, they saw a difference of commercial opinion, basically got screwed.

Steve Brossman: But anyhow, that’s life.

Steve Brossman: And then Warner Brothers came knocking on the door and they said, hey listen, can you put a show together that gets our characters in this time slot in this classification?

Steve Brossman: I thought oh OK so we put it together and filmed it and a a version of that show is currently on that I have nothing to do with and 10 years later it is still on.

Steve Brossman: So oh, I tell you what what happened there But all of those were great learnings and I learnt from a lot of good people along the way and and that’s taken me to now as to how can I, how can I take all of that back.

Steve Brossman: And when I was travelling the world, speaking in the health and fitness industry, when I’d fly into a town or a country, whatever, the first thing they did was put me on radio, on TV to promote the event.

Steve Brossman: So basically then, back then I had to learn to be a profitable interviewee.

Steve Brossman: How can I get the message across in an interview to get the people there still within the regulation type sound bites?

Steve Brossman: Otherwise you get edited the crap out and off.

Steve Brossman: But I didn’t mean that they cut all this out.

Steve Brossman: It’s like the all that’s your fault.

Steve Brossman: And so it was those things as well that I’ve gone back into the archives and said, well, what is it that I could pull out from years of being on both sides of the camera that is most appropriate today?

Steve Brossman: So that’s the history to now.

Anthony perl: It’s it’s quite a path and and definitely as you say, a number of learnings you would have had along the way in working with you know from regional TV to the you know, the big boys when you start talking to Warner Brothers and and the like.

Anthony perl: And it it’s it’s interesting isn’t it, that there’s a sweet spot between the two.

Anthony perl: I mean some people prefer being at that bigger end of town.

Anthony perl: Others it’s it’s a nicer to be in control of it.

Anthony perl: Is that something that was big along the way as well in terms of your learning and it you know from being employed and having to do something and then them taking ownership and running with it versus you being able to own it and run it and do it yourself?

Steve Brossman: It’s interesting.

Steve Brossman: I remember coming out with a line.

Steve Brossman: I’d never thought of it before, but a client came to me and she said, Steve, I’ve got this idea, I’ve got this, can you help me get on TV?

Steve Brossman: And I looked at her and looked at what she was doing.

Steve Brossman: And then something twigged and it just came out and it basically said, you’re bigger than TV, you’re bigger than network TV.

Steve Brossman: And I was like whoa, did I just say that?

Steve Brossman: And she was you didn’t need it.

Steve Brossman: You know the Youtube and all these sorts of things that the multi $1,000,000 podcasts that are out there right now is they would be nothing on network TV.

Steve Brossman: So doing it the right way and you maintain control of it.

Steve Brossman: It’s a it’s a big thing because when, yeah, when I wrote that show for Warner and they said, yeah, we want it and then they came back and said here’s our new show, would you like to be on it.

Steve Brossman: The last thing that I wanted to be was on TV having a being a little lackey to me, it’s the creator of the owner and there’s no money being on TV.

Steve Brossman: That money was in all the other products and licensing.

Steve Brossman: I said no, thank you.

Steve Brossman: All the best.

Steve Brossman: So yeah, it’s how do you put your strategy together to get the most out of and and this is how you work with your people.

Steve Brossman: Yeah, it’s like, well, I can give you the airwaves and I can give you this.

Steve Brossman: But when you sit down with them and work out their strategy as to what they’re going to do, that’s when the value of what you do come to play.

Steve Brossman: Because yeah, people can put people on to to do a podcast, but to the quality and to get the returns that you help your people with, that’s the different ball game.

Anthony perl: Yeah, I think there’s there’s so many extremes of it.

Anthony perl: I I think I I was recently told to have a listen to a particular podcast and I don’t think they did it with any sort of level of animosity.

Anthony perl: I think they genuinely thought that this particular podcast was quite good.

Anthony perl: I found it almost unlistenable because, and this is a tact that I advise people do not take, they had clearly pre recorded a bunch of questions that they always asked the same questions and they sent that off and asked people to record their responses and then they kind of glue it together.

Anthony perl: And I just, I really wasn’t sure of the point in doing that.

Anthony perl: But you you’ve got that extreme where I think it’s done badly.

Anthony perl: But what I found really interesting was that you go the other extreme now and this trend on television to show podcasts.

Anthony perl: So I, I, I know, you know, for those that are listening in in rugby league playing States will be familiar with the Maddie Johns podcast is a good example.

Anthony perl: So Maddie Johns has his own TV show, and that is a genuine TV show, but he also has his podcast.

Anthony perl: And what they do is, is they literally sit them down at a desk that’s just a plain old desk they’re wearing.

Anthony perl: They’ve got microphones in front of them.

Anthony perl: They’re wearing headphones, they’re wearing casual clothes, and they’re having a conversation.

Anthony perl: So they’re not worrying about audiences and throwing to videos and all those other things.

Anthony perl: They’re just having a genuine conversation.

Anthony perl: And I find it fascinating that that is now ATV show as well as being a podcast itself.

Anthony perl: So I find it fascinating that you’ve now got this flip that’s starting to happen and it’s, you know, I know there are other examples of that, but certainly that’s just an interesting trend.

Steve Brossman: Yeah, I’ll go back to that.

Steve Brossman: The the podcast that you mentioned that was basically cut and paste pre recording.

Steve Brossman: And one of the things that with all the research and the the jumping in with the sales part that I was doing before with flow selling and the energy that you have in the sales process, it’s all about the energy now the energy between 2 live people, you and I and the tennis match analogy, there’s high energy when you’ve got that banter happening and the people feel that and they get in it.

Steve Brossman: Whereas just the cut and paste education it, it would want to be damn good information for anybody to sit through it because there there would be no energy whatsoever.

Steve Brossman: It’s just pre recorded cut and paste answers.

Steve Brossman: Now on the other side of it, the Mattie John Show, and the great thing about Maddie is there’s always going to be energy no matter what, whether it’s two guys at a table, whether they’re they’re sitting somewhere or or in the middle of a football match, there is always going to be energy and always going to be something unexpected.

Steve Brossman: And that’s our fascination with with real life dramas.

Steve Brossman: I mean the the the rubbish that’s on TV that is that that is not.

Steve Brossman: It’s just basically real life, love it or hate it, people are just voyeurs into that.

Steve Brossman: And because that type of show, he’s got a history, he’s got a following of being, you know, even when he was on the The Footy Show, he was always the unpredictable guy.

Steve Brossman: He was always the one that would put his hand up.

Steve Brossman: You know, Trent, the whatever.

Steve Brossman: I mean, I still remember him.

Steve Brossman: That’s because he’s memorable and he gave you good energy watching him.

Steve Brossman: Therefore, you would turn up again to his podcast.

Steve Brossman: It just two guys sitting, having a chat.

Steve Brossman: You never know where it’s going to go and something controversial or unexpected is always going to happen.

Steve Brossman: So it doesn’t surprise me that those sorts of things are coming around, but they need to be good, they need to be high energy to be able to have people sit through just two people having a chat.

Anthony perl: Yeah.

Anthony perl: And I think and and you hit upon a really interesting point and it’s one of my pet peeves, is that a lot of people, and you talked about it earlier, a lot of people define themselves as being passionate about a particular subject or or a leader in a particular subject.

Anthony perl: I I if you write that, then it’s a nonsense.

Anthony perl: Don’t write it.

Anthony perl: Show it.

Anthony perl: And and that’s the great thing about you know as you’re talking about Mattie Johns, that there’s unquestionably the guy is passionate about rugby league and we’ll talk to the cows come home about it and you feed off of that energy and I think that’s the same when you’re talking about that.

Anthony perl: I mean, I, I, there’s no doubt that people listening to us on this particular podcast are going to hear our energy for podcasting because it’s there, right?

Anthony perl: And you know, it’s in our blood.

Anthony perl: We’ve been doing it for a while and you know, it’s something that we clearly are passionate about, but we don’t have to.

Anthony perl: I didn’t have to say any introduction or I’m talking to Steve who’s passionate about podcasting.

Anthony perl: Anyone is going to get that by listening in and I think it’s a really important lesson because you want to be a great guest and to be a great podcaster if you’re going to be have your own program is you need to give over that energy.

Steve Brossman: Yeah, it it’s it’s the energy well, the ease that we talk about in this.

Steve Brossman: And I want to come back to what other things?

Steve Brossman: So I’m going to cross my fingers and I hope I remember what I was going to say in the 1st place.

Steve Brossman: And we tell people that it’s the energy that you deliver, the emotion that you create, not the education that you teach.

Steve Brossman: And and that’s that’s the the the big thing there.

Steve Brossman: And and we tell the people that we don’t want to hear that you’re passionate about something.

Steve Brossman: We actually don’t want to see that you’re passionate about it.

Steve Brossman: We want to feel that you’re passionate about it.

Steve Brossman: And when people don’t say it, we don’t hear it.

Steve Brossman: They don’t, they don’t say it.

Steve Brossman: It’s like that’s the last thing we ever want you to say I am passionate about.

Steve Brossman: If you can’t demonstrate and me feel that you’re passionate about something, then it’s a lost cause.

Steve Brossman: You you just don’t get up and say because I I remember so many times and I tell the people, yeah, you go to a networking event or you go to somewhere and they’ll be sitting there and they’ll have a piece of paper virtually in front of the camera and they’ll say hi, my name is and I am passionate and this is the worst one that I always get.

Steve Brossman: I am passionate about helping women have their best life.

Anthony perl: Well I tell you what it remind it just reminded me of something.

Anthony perl: So this is going to go into the memory banks of people because it’s going back a while.

Anthony perl: Those that remember the the wonderful comedy sketch show Fast forward and there was the impersonation of of Derryn Hinch on those shows and there was a the particular sketch where he was talking about.

Anthony perl: In fact, I think it wasn’t actually Derryn Hinch.

Anthony perl: I think it was a sketch on Mike Willacy who’s now passed away.

Anthony perl: But there was an allegation at one point that he might have been a little bit tipsy on air and Derryn Hinch I think was doing it reading something about it and the and this is in the comedy sketch and he talks about the fact and he couldn’t even read the Auto Club Q you know and it was and and I think I think back to those lovely things but you’re right it it people that are reading scripts and that it doesn’t come across in the same way.

Anthony perl: I I know I’ve been inspired by the great interviewers of of the past and certainly, you know heavily influenced by the likes of Ray Martin and and people like Graham Norton and Michael Parkinson who the clipboards were there sometimes as a prompt, but more often than not it was just a great conversation that they have or or still have.

Anthony perl: In the case of Graham Norton and I, I think that’s what makes it really interesting for people and you get that as we say, the the energy and the emotion coming through.

Anthony perl: And and I I liken it back as well.

Anthony perl: When we go back to our school days, there were teachers that we all had that went through the motions.

Anthony perl: And then there were teachers that had a massive influence on us because they clearly loved the subject matter that they were talking about.

Anthony perl: And that sticks with you.

Anthony perl: And I think we have that in business as well.

Anthony perl: There are people that get through to you because of the way that they deliver.

Steve Brossman: Yeah, it’s the it’s the other side of the coin as well.

Steve Brossman: Now most podcast hosts are taught do your homework on your guest, you know, know some things to talk about and as well as some of the questions that may be sent in.

Steve Brossman: But what the guests don’t do is they don’t do as much homework on the host.

Steve Brossman: They just think, well, all I got to do is I’ve sent my questions in and I’ve sent my my lines and my bio.

Steve Brossman: I just have to turn up.

Steve Brossman: No, you’ve got to do as much research on the host, their audience, what particular parts of what you know and you can talk about will be of greatest unique value to the audience and that’s what you bring to the table.

Steve Brossman: And what two or three unique things do you know about the host that you could bring out in a conversation to really let them know that you’ve had you’ve done your research and let the audience know that hey, you know, he, he’s somebody who cares about the host, who’s not just here to, you know, deliver a monologue.

Steve Brossman: They don’t realise to be a good guest you need to be as diligent as a good host.

Anthony perl: Yes.

Anthony perl: And and and it’s really when you think about some of the great guests that you’ve seen on programs and again, I’ll use Graham Norton as a good example, obviously having celebrities on all the time.

Anthony perl: And there are some guests that are clearly amazing that have to understand the particular medium and the way that that particular show works and deliver consistently.

Anthony perl: And they’re consistently great guests.

Anthony perl: And there are others that are just showing up and they’re there because they’re flogging whatever their latest movie or TV show or whatever it is that they’ve got and they’re just boring.

Anthony perl: And I think that it’s it is that it’s it’s being able to bring something to the table.

Anthony perl: If you do that, then the people listening in are going to enjoy it.

Anthony perl: Because I think that’s where the magic happens.

Anthony perl: In podcasting, people that are sitting there and listening to a conversation between two people that are clearly, you know, emotional and engaged in what they’re talking about is fascinating for someone to sit and listen to.

Anthony perl: And hey, I would never have been able to get that deep into that conversation, but I’m a family on the wall on this incredible thing.

Anthony perl: There’s so much value that I’m picking up on this.

Anthony perl: You know, I want more of it and that’s what you want.

Anthony perl: You know, I I know I talk to people who are doing, looking to do their own podcast and say that the real secret is you’ve got to be pretend.

Anthony perl: You’re talking to just one person.

Anthony perl: Because if you can make a difference and you can influence one person, then you’ve made a positive change in the world, and that that flow and effect will come come back to you in bucket loads over time.

Steve Brossman: And when you do speak to one person, this comes from back in the old video marketing days and the ability to reach through the lens to communicate with the people.

Steve Brossman: Now you and I have got a couple of screens.

Steve Brossman: I know if I was to look at you, you’re over there.

Steve Brossman: My face is here and the camera’s here.

Steve Brossman: And so most of the time, I’m hardly looking at you at all.

Steve Brossman: I might just come across and have a look at some of the different facial expressions and see what’s going on over there.

Steve Brossman: But most of the time it’s here.

Steve Brossman: And we’ve got a saying from back in 08/09 when we first did video marketing is reverse the lens, use the lens as a telescope into the life of the one person that you want to talk to.

Steve Brossman: Who is that person?

Steve Brossman: What are they feeling today?

Steve Brossman: What are they wearing today?

Steve Brossman: And just talk to that one person.

Steve Brossman: Now, we used to be able to do it, but I probably still can look at somebody and tell whether they’re looking through and communicating to the person or whether they’re looking at the camera thinking, oh shot, it’s looking at me.

Steve Brossman: It’s just like there’s a there’s a camera over there, OK, I know we’ve got to look this way.

Steve Brossman: And they’re just not communicating through to that one person.

Steve Brossman: We all want millions of views, but they’re not all going to be in the one room sitting on each other’s knee watching the one screen.

Steve Brossman: So we’re going to reach into one room at a time, and that’s how you need to communicate.

Anthony perl: I love that.

Anthony perl: Steve, before you go, I want to ask you a question that oh.

Steve Brossman: You want my link Quick buy now.

Steve Brossman: Is that what you wanted?

Steve Brossman: My link but quick buy now.

Anthony perl: Yes, quick and we will do that.

Anthony perl: No, what I wanted to know was what when people come to work with you, what’s the heart moment that they have that you know you wish more people knew about prior so that they would that’s what they were going to have when they come and work with you.

Steve Brossman: The biggest aha is the there’s two parts to it.

Steve Brossman: The first aha is how to be the prize and not the professor.

Steve Brossman: I don’t have to get up and and spruik who I am what I do it’s not the the aha when people think I just want them to understand what I do and they’ll buy from me.

Steve Brossman: This is from the the old sales training.

Steve Brossman: No, they have to understand that you understand them and if we’re having this conversation and I’m understanding what your people need and how they need it and they can get that I understand them.

Steve Brossman: That’s a big aha.

Steve Brossman: So it’s it’s re reframing that I’m going to be communicating with those people.

Steve Brossman: The other biggest aha is it’s not all about giving good information and sticking people into your funnel.

Steve Brossman: There are so many other ways that you could leverage that you could just be yourself and attract the people to you, not force them into a funnel.

Steve Brossman: And people get that.

Steve Brossman: Normally we got a training program in the second or third week.

Steve Brossman: It’s like, I get it, there is all of this and we were just doing this, it’s get it on, give some information, give them a link and hope the hell that one day they’ll find you.

Steve Brossman: It’s not gonna happen.

Steve Brossman: It’s relationship 1st and then whatever happens after that and then it’s yeah, it’s the it’s the Trinity of the relationships.

Steve Brossman: It’s all three of you, the host, the guest, and the audience.

Anthony perl: Absolutely.

Anthony perl: And I think it is a really important point for people to remember is that it’s not just on the host to maintain that relationship moving forward.

Anthony perl: It’s a two way St.

Anthony perl: and the opportunities are are there And and you know I look forward to the fact that Steve what’s going to happen is, is you’re going to send people to they’ve been through your program, going to come and be a guest on my program and then I’m going to help them put their own podcast together.

Anthony perl: And we’re going to create this great opportunity for more people to get on more podcasts and really make this thing grow because it’s just such a fantastic medium.

Anthony perl: Steve, we we are going to do what you want us to do.

Anthony perl: We’re going to definitely put links to all of your stuff and how to contact you in the show notes of the podcast, ’cause that’s what we always do.

Anthony perl: And we want people to connect and we want people to to enjoy that.

Anthony perl: You’ve been an amazing guest and I know we could probably talk for another couple of hours, quite frankly, on podcasting, and I’m sure we’ll get that opportunity in the future.

Anthony perl: But in the meantime, thank you so much for being a part of this bite, mate.

Steve Brossman: It’s been an absolute blast on you.

Steve Brossman: We’re going to have a a lot of fun and to the guys at home, when we got on just before it, I think we got on less than two minutes before I said what are we, what are we up to today is what sort of framework.

Steve Brossman: I said no, let’s just hit the button.

Steve Brossman: I know where we’re going.

Steve Brossman: I said OK, and that was our prep and we had enough confidence in each other that if Anthony was going to lead me down any rabbit hole, he could and I’d get out and he knew what you needed.

Steve Brossman: And that’s where the discussion went and we just had a a good time and I hope you guys found value in it.

Anthony perl: I’m sure they did, and I think that’s a great way to end it.

Anthony perl: So everyone, thank you for listening in to this episode of Biz Bytes and stay tuned for more coming up very soon.

Anthony perl: Biz Bytes is brought to you by com together for all your marketing needs so you can build your brand, engage audiences on multiple platforms.

Anthony perl: Go to commtogether.com.au

Anthony perl: Follow the links to Book an appointment for a free consultation.