How to master Sales Psychology through understanding and connection

Mastering Sales Psychology through understanding and connection, in conversation with Nancy Zare

 Mastering sales psychology through understanding and connection in conversation with Nancy Zare. This is a fun episode. Check out some of these excerpts because there is so much you’re going to get out of this one. When I first found myself selling mental health services in the workplace, as soon as my prospect would say anything that didn’t make sense, came anywhere near what it was that I offered, I would grab hold of it and I would, massage it and rub it and I would play it up.

And you know what? It wasn’t necessarily a top priority or what was on their mind. The fact that you’ve given them some clarity about their situation is a service and you’ve done so well. A good deed. Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of Biz Bites proudly brought to you by Com2gether, the people behind podcasts done for you, because we’re all about exposing other people’s brilliance.

Don’t forget to subscribe to biz bites and check out podcasts done for you as well in the show notes. Now let’s get into it.

Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of Biz Bites where today we’re going to talk about sales, but a very different approach to truly understanding and aligning people with the right values so that you connect with the people who are ready to buy from you. What a novel idea. The person that is joining me today is A coach, a consultant, a speaker.

She is a bestselling author of more books than I can remember. I think it’s about six, isn’t it? So Nancy, welcome to Biz Bites. It is my honour to be here and to talk with the audience. Now, Nancy, I’ve given you a little bit of an introduction, but give me a proper introduction. How do you define what it is you actually do?

Oh my goodness, a proper introduction. What do, how do I define what I do? It’s indescribably delicious. What it is is that I am a sales psychologist. I was born a psychologist and I had lots of human behaviour to observe when I was a child because my parents had a very stormy, marital relationship.

I was the youngest child, the only girl. And I looked at this situation and I said to myself, holy moly, this is chaotic. How do I fit in? At any rate I later went on to practise psychology without having a licence on my parents and they let me. And then when I got to college and I took my first course, Intro to Psych, it was like, oh my, I love this stuff.

And my, I, my sales career, I’ll be candid with you, Anthony. It took a different direction because I wanted nothing to do with selling. So I backdoored into selling and how I, how that happened is that. When I applied for graduate studies, the government had a grant which enabled me to receive tuition money and room and board and so forth.

If I were to learn how to implement mental health services in the workplace, specifically services for alcoholics. And this was right up my alley, at least the mental health services. And so I happily accepted the money and upon graduation discovered you cannot implement a program until it’s sold. And that’s how I backdoored into selling because I loved what I was doing, but in order to do what I loved, I had to market and sell it.

And I had no clue because none of the training consisted of helping me learn how to market and sell, but simply to implement the program. And I believe that’s exactly what many of the members of the audience have experienced too. That you have invested in your educational credential, your occupation, you love what you do, and you suddenly discovered that to do what you love, you’re going to have to do something no one ever trained you to do, to market and sell your services.

And hence, I went on a search and I bet People are still searching for how do I do it in integrity with my values. Such an interesting approach because it sounds so simple and as someone who’s run a small business myself for a number of years that you speak the absolute truth there where particularly around sales.

So having run a marketing business, marketing and sales don’t tend to want to talk to one another, even in your own brain, you suffer that kind of idea that I can. Do marketing, but can I do selling? And there’s a lot of baggage that comes with that whole idea of saying I have to now get into sales mode.

And I’ve spoken to a lot of people over the years about it, but it was interesting that you and I met recently and And it’s come off the back of a period where it occurred to me that people say you’ve got to get it and have the sales conversation. And one of the interesting things about the psychology behind it, and I’d like to get your take on it is what happens is you focus on the word sales.

And I changed that for myself where I said it’s a sales conversation, but the emphasis is on conversation. Oh, I love how you have reframed it because often that’s what I need to do with my clients is help them reframe and rethink what this is all about. For many of us, especially the ones I like to attract, sales is service, and I’ve always been a person of service, and that’s why I went into psychology.

I wanted to serve others and especially help people optimise and enjoy their lives. Selling equals service was something that, I initially began to understand and I could buy into and it felt like a good combination. I since went on to look up some definitions of selling and I came across one that really feels good to me and it’s called influence.

Because we are selling all the time when we communicate, we are influencing others. And sales is particularly an activity where we are influencing others to take an action. They may not. And of course, some of us are more invested in whatever it is that the other person does, but what they choose to do is in their best interest.

And that’s what, why service to me comes into play. Because when I keep that in mind, and I think about selling a service, it’s not about me. It’s about the other person. And Anthony, I bet you have heard this from Zig Ziglar, not personally, but perhaps if you’re familiar with his work, and maybe many of your listeners are.

He said basically that we have to, if you give the other person what they need, you will eventually get back what you need. And that person who is buying your service, your product, whatever the investment is, that investment is a kind of a one time thing. It you receive it, it gets spent, it’s gone.

But the product or service that they received continues. And what an interesting concept that is, that whatever it is that you are selling, your client, your customer, will benefit long after the money you received is gone. Interesting idea, right? Absolutely. And you certainly hope so, don’t you? You think about it, whatever you purchase, there’s very few things that you purchase that are gone in an instant.

Maybe even, and even, if you think about, you buy an ice cream an ice cream, Okay. It might only last you depends out of how quickly you eat it, but it might only last a few minutes, but the smile can also last a while afterwards as well, can’t it? So it’s And so can the chubby cheeks and the rounded belly.

Yes. So we, or maybe the cavities that we get in our teeth. Or our blood sugar getting, whatever, I’m, I’m just playing with this idea of, it does last longer than the actual, exchange of money. Yeah. And it’s an important idea, isn’t it? Because the problem with getting into the.

Sales cycle particularly for small businesses where the person doing the selling is often the owner, CEO or and has, is wearing multiple hats that you get into that cycle and you’re just worried about the next sale and you forget about actually working with the client and giving them more opportunities to succeed.

Yeah, it’s something that when I taught at the college level, I was always encouraging my students to understand that concept that it’s, that take the emphasis off you and put the emphasis where it belongs on the other person. And that’s why Anthony, I particularly gravitated to the platinum rule. And I know you and I talked about that during our first meeting, but the platinum rule Hey, we hope you’re enjoying listening to the Biz Bites podcast.

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Hence, we need to be putting them in the spotlight, in the centre stage, and it isn’t about us. It isn’t about how I look or what I say. It’s about listening to my prospect, tuning into their needs and again, serving them. What is it that will help them best? It’s not about me. It’s about my prospect. And I think that’s also an interesting idea as well, because you can.

You can automatically assume that they know, but sometimes that’s the problem as well is that they’ve come to you, they know they need something and what they think they need and what they actually need can be two quite different things. So listening and actually conversing with them is absolutely important rather than just seeing someone and going, Oh, okay, they’re going to need program or product a when that may not be the case at all.

And that was a big mistake that I made early in my sales career. When I first found myself selling mental health services in the workplace, as soon as my prospect would say anything that came anywhere near what it was that I offered, I would grab hold of it. And I would, massage it and rub it and I would play it up.

And you know what? It wasn’t necessarily a top priority or what was on their minds, but it was on my mind because I thought that’s how I could sell. And again, this is a mistake that many of us make that we don’t really pull from our prospect probe more deeply. What is it that’s going on? They initially say something.

And for many of us, we take that at surface value, but One of the really good skills in selling is to ask more questions and to ask a question that enables your prospect to go deeper and deeper into why is that important, what would be the benefit, what would happen if it doesn’t take place and so forth, and really get them to understand the situation.

That is actually serving them, even if they choose not to do business with you. The fact that you’ve given them some clarity about their situation is a service, and you’ve done, a good deed. Yeah, and I think that’s important too, isn’t it? Because if you go in with a mindset of a conversation and helping people.

You may not always get the sale, but not instantly anyway, because I think if you help people and you give off something, then that’s more memorable than, Oh, that person just tried to sell to me because we’ve all had first conversations with people or first contacts with people, which is highly annoying where they’ve barely said hello and they’re like, selling something immediately.

Yes, it happened again today. I guess it happens every day. If you are a person out there that you’re going to be solicited. Oh, you’re a coach, you’re a consultant. You must need fill in the blanks, some kind of service. Neglecting to take a look at whether or not the service does exist already or, am I discontent with the service?

And there’s no questioning in that area. It’s an assumption. And I think that, the word assumption I know you probably heard it. I’ve heard it that, it’s made up of the word ask you and me that when you assume something, you’re neglecting both of us in this relationship. It’s not allowing us to connect as real humans.

So hence, yeah, I’m not a good plan. No. And I think what’s important as well about the stuff that you talk about is that whole aligning of values. And first of all, that can only happen if you start trying to take an interest in the person both before and during the conversation that you have.

I love it because it is about values and that’s definitely near and dear to my heart because people have different values and hence we need to respect and honour and that’s what the platinum rule is all about is to use those values speak those values of the other person because that’s when they’re going to feel like you really are listening you get me you We’re alike.

And hence, that’s why I called my system a likeability. It’s not about popularity. It’s not but a likeability because of the fact that you want the other person to experience that sense of, We’re connected value wise. There is something here that feels near and dear. And hence, that’s why we can work together.

And it’s interesting too, when you think about some of the big brands around the world, banks are a great example. They spend millions and millions of dollars on advertising, basically just to set up their values to provide stories in the form of a 30, 30 or 45 or 30 60 second advertisement that tells a story that is really about value alignment.

It’s true. And a lot of these little slogans are, again, they’re touching into values, the values of the consumer. And this is the reason why people are very loyal to certain brands, because they feel like that brand encapsulates who they are and uplifts their spirit. Yes. Or in some cases who they aspire to be.

Yes. And I think that’s a, and that’s an important part about value alignment as well, isn’t it? Because in part values are about aspiration. I like that you added that aspire because many of us are wannabes, right? And that’s a good thing because By having a goal or to aspire to be a certain type of person that builds our character and allows us to grow.

That’s what it’s all about. By having, a sense of your North star and you point it towards where you want to go rather than just, I’ll wander the universe. Yeah. And I think it, I know as a marketer that I’ve spent a lot of time over the years working with clients about their values.

mission, vision, and purpose, and all of those things. And often you start talking to them about it and you can see in part the eyes glaze over and go, Oh, this is just a, new age rubbish and we don’t really need to do this. Why are we spending so much time on it? And I think that’s where you missed the point.

Isn’t it? Because when you actually zero in on those things and you understand that’s who you are as a person, who your business is, then the likelihood that you are going to enjoy doing business and attract doing people doing business is with those who are aligned with those values, because when they don’t align, Usually something goes wrong.

I agree. And that’s when you think of the person from HELL and you say to yourself, how did that happen to me? And it’s because we were out of alignment. We didn’t notice or we overlooked or we were in denial about the fact that This is not a good match. And that’s important to recognize. In fact, one of the things I recommend Anthony and listener, I want you to think carefully about this idea.

You need to cultivate relationships with people who do almost the same thing you do, but have a different style so that you and that other person can actually refer business to one another because. This person, this prospect had a style that rubbed you the wrong way, but was perfect for the, for your colleague and vice versa.

So it’s an idea I want you to play with, but I think it’s one I’ve shared with my clients and it works beautifully. So I want to understand a little bit more about from a practical point of view because you deal with with people that different sizes of business. But what’s the, what are the, for the smaller business owners that are listening in at the moment, and again, whether they are, You wearing multiple hats, including being the sales person or whether they might even have a, a team and some people that are helping there.

What is the, what are some of the tips that you can give them to start changing the way they think and what’s going to make those little percentages of difference to There are opportunities to sell more, so there are three things that principles that I think set me apart from other people who may help folks with selling.

And I tend to work with prospects clients who candidly dislike the marketing and sales piece. They shy away from it. Maybe they might like marketing a little better, but the sales definitely feels awkward because they don’t like tooting their own horn. And there are three things that I suggest.

The first is to always ask for permission. When you ask for permission, Whether it’s to have a meeting, to put them on your newsletter list, whatever it might be, and they consent, you never have to worry that you’re now offending them or that somehow you’ve overstepped your friendship, your boundaries.

The second principle is to speak naturally without a script, to speak conversationally. And while that sounds, quote, easy to do, a lot of folks find themselves memorising a speech and it comes about robotically and as soon as it feels like it’s on automatic, the receiver tunes you out and says it sounds salesy.

So you need to know where you’re going in your conversation, but it needs to be conversational and natural. And there are some tips and tricks that I mentioned in my books about how to have a natural conversation. And the third principle, which It’s to adjust what you say to match the prospect. And this is especially where the platinum rule takes place, because by identifying the personality style, or what I call the buying style of your prospect, and adjusting your communication to match, that’s when people are going to relax, feel comfortable with you, the sales resistance drops away, and it opens the door to doing business together.

So those three things are what I advocate. I love particularly that last point because we do that so naturally in a. social environment. And I’ve often used the example from a marketing perspective, where one of the frustrations that I have is people send out, for example, a newsletter and they don’t segment their database and don’t realise that, that there are different ways of talking to different people.

And sometimes it’s as obvious as a demographic because I often use this example where years ago I was working with a financial planner. And they sent out an email with a newsletter headline that said, so you’re about to retire. And I said, what do you know that I don’t know? Because I think I’ve got a lot of years left yet.

And that just happened to be the first article. And there were lots of things they could have done with that article. They could have either shuffled the order of the article for certain parts of the database. Or they could have simply changed it for certain people to say someone who is going to, who is getting ready to retire.

There are lots of different takes that you could do on that, but that’s the point in a natural conversation, you would adapt, when you see someone when you meet someone socially, who’s very formally dressed, who, might be, in some sort of formal position, you tend to tighten up and speak to them in a very different way.

to, two seconds later, you see a friend of yours and you’re going to have a very different kind of conversation. And so we need to adapt in the sales conversation as well, because again, the emphasis is on the conversation, isn’t it? And then on the values. Yeah, that was so well put that we need to adapt and certainly we need to adapt in terms of demographics, like you said, age or stage in life and that sort of thing.

I also believe that we can, and I teach, how to read the personality style and hence to adapt for the personality style. And this is where we get into, are people more formal? or informal. Are there people who want to follow rules and have a structure and everything’s measured? Or are there people who just case ras, let it be free and, easy and that sort of thing.

Are there people who are very fast and want, bottom line, let’s hurry, or let’s take our time and let’s evaluate and be slower. These are factors that when you know the, about the other person and you adjust accordingly, It’ll be a much more effective and productive conversation. And both of you will walk away saying that was great.

I really enjoyed it. And I can tell everyone that in the conversation that I had with Nancy previously, we went through some stuff in LinkedIn and I loved her insights and We’re going to do a little bit of that, but we’re going to do that in the bonus bit of content for the podcast.

So you’re going to have to stay tuned at the end and we’ll have a link at the end. So you can you can get to that, but right now I just want to go back. And and talk about a few other things as well. So I’m going to, for those that are watching Nancy is very brightly dressed and is wearing a very distinctive yellow hat.

So tell me the story behind the hat. So there’s a short story and a long story. The short story is entrepreneurs wear many hats and the one they dislike is the marketing and sales hat. That’s the short story. The long story is I’m five foot, five foot one if we stretch a little. Okay. And I love to speak in front of audiences at least pre COVID.

I spoke a lot in front of, live in front of stages, but I would get down from the platform. And I would walk among the audience. When you’re five foot and you’re walking among the audience, nobody can see you. And a nice brightly coloured hat is a good way to let them know here’s where the speaker is, here’s where the sound is coming from.

But I also, Anthony, changed the hats. I have four colours because the four colours represent the four personality styles. And not only did I wear a different coloured hat depending on which style I was talking about. But I also would take the hats and I would bang them together to illustrate where the conflicts were in with certain styles.

Because obviously we don’t all get along with everyone. And so there are some natural affinities and then there are some areas where we clash. So that’s the long story about the hats. No, I love it. But tell me, okay, I need to know now the four colors. Give it to me. What are the four colours and what’s the logic behind each?

Okay. The red is for the person on fire. They’re in a hurry. They’re quick. They decide to buy either in one or two colours. contacts. Then we’ve got the gold hat. They have hearts of gold and this is the person who is fairly quick. They’ll buy two to three contacts, but they need one additional one because they go back and they say was this a transaction or did they really care about me?

They have hearts of gold. They give it away. They want that relationship. And then we have the blue hat, true blue, loyal. These are the people who want everything, nailed down and structured and in a process. And they are very brand loyal. And once they find something, they stick with it because it’s tried and true.

So true blue, and then. I’ll be candid with you. The green hat is what other primary colours are there? So we came across the green hat and the green hat is for the person who is, it’s very careful and studious and thinks deeply. And we can, go back to the Excel spreadsheets that were in green and possibly we can say this is the person who knows how to make and create and use one.

I love it. I’m now rethinking the fact that I’ve got brown and black hats. What am I doing with those? There, I don’t know what they represent other than the need to stay out of the sun. Yeah, you’ve got all colors. See all colours when they come together, actually produce a Brown or a black. So we’re all a combination of all four styles.

Hence. There you go. There you go. So people that know that the videos that I’ve been producing over the years whilst I’m not wearing a hat today, often do in one of my podcast series. And I did for many years and still do from time to time series of marks, very short marketing tips, and I’m often standing outside.

With my lack of hairline, a hat is an essential tool, but and it’s funny because one thing, cause you, you talk about psychology and personality and things and I’ve often. heard over the years that particularly if you’re doing video, that the two no nos are hats and glasses. Now I can’t see without the glasses.

I could do it, but it’s not, I’m not going to see, everything’s going to look a little bit blurry. And if I’m need to read anything that I’m in real big trouble, but certainly after a couple of minutes of look of looking around with no glasses on, I’m going to, The eyes are going to start to strain.

I’m not going to feel great. So the glasses are a necessary one and I’ve never been able to perfect contact lenses. That’s been necessary and often the hat as well. But I don’t know if you if you’ve heard that psychology behind it, if it is creating barriers, I think the biggest barrier isn’t the eyeglasses or the hat, it’s the hands across the chest.

The lack of eye contact, at least in maybe Western countries, because that is a sign of friendliness. And, the right hand that is extended for handshake was to show that there’s no weapon in our hands. I don’t know if people are aware of that ancient tradition, and that’s how the handshake developed, so these, To me, when the hands are crossed in front of the chest or certainly on the hips or what it’s, it, this is not a friendly pose.

So I think those are really bigger barriers. Yeah, it’s interesting, isn’t it? And all these things that you have to be aware of, isn’t it? Because that’s one of those things, isn’t it? When you’re having a conversation with someone and you can see, and we can’t really see so well here, you got there, they’ve got their arms folded and they’re in front of you, you’re thinking, They’re not buying this whatever yours, whatever you’re talking to them about, whether it’s selling or general conversation.

Unless it’s, unless they’re genuinely cold, which can happen but then they be shivering like that because it’s a little cold. I get that of times I found myself doing that if it’s really cold. But mostly it’s closing yourself off, isn’t it? It truly is. There’s. I’m not an expert in body language, but it is something that I enjoy learning about and observing because there are obvious cues.

And of course, if you are in a sales situation and you see your prospect’s eyes, move away and wander and close, they yawn, except these are not good signs, folks. You want to you want to make sure that the person is engaged with you and vice versa. Yeah. And I think it’s and it is important to take those cues and things these days.

Particularly when we’re doing a lot of things virtually. So it is it’s, it is a bit about watching as well as listening, but the listening is certainly the most important part, isn’t it? It’s really taking those cues from people and knowing where to go. And as you say before, not just following a script, which I think is very difficult for a lot of people to get their head around.

And even. Even seasoned salespeople tend to follow a script, don’t they? Yes, they do. In fact, many people will train you if you are hired in a company to present a certain script. At one point, I actually did tell a sales. And so I was on the phone and the computer dialled up the number and boom, we were connected.

And there was a script that I had to read. The person who actually got away from the script and started talking, Like a human being was the one who did a lot better than those of us who just Read the words, of course if you read the words without any expression, it’s horrible that monotone In fact, i’ve played around with I don’t know if you have ever done this with telemarketing people Who have a script and I will cut through it and then they don’t know what to say or do.

It’s just Bizarre, but it’s true people can rely too heavily on a script Now I want to just before we start wrapping things up, two things is one is to remind people that we’re going to have some serious tips to take in afterwards for the bonus bit of content. But I wanted to ask you a little bit, and you touched on right at the beginning, your background story.

Cause I’m always fascinated about how people get from, where they started and where they imagine to where they are today. Tell me a little bit about what the dream was when you were younger, when you were in school, was the psychology thing, was that an immediate reaction to just a situation with your parents?

Or was there something, what did they do? What drove you to that route? And then eventually to sales? As I mentioned, my parents had a stormy marriage and I wanted to help them. Now when I said a stormy marriage, we’re talking about cupboards banging and glasses breaking and there was a lot of chaos in the family.

And I also said I was the youngest child and only girl. And so when my parents got at it, weak children scattered if we knew what was right for us. And I remember my very first memory is being in the basement and up above I could hear what was going on. I wanted to help. I don’t know if I was scared that I would be hurt, but I really wanted to help.

I was scared about my parents breaking up because I didn’t know What would happen if there wasn’t a two parent family? So I Wanted to keep them together And around the age of 10 i’d seen a tv show In which the parent helped three quarrelling children get along. And I said, wow, I love that technique.

I’m going to try it on my parents. And that’s when I practised psychology without a licence. And the funny thing is, they let me do it. Now, both of them are deceased, so I cannot ask them. Whether they remember this incident and why they allowed me to help them, I can only speculate that either they were in so much pain that they were looking for anything that might soothe them, or they saw something in their daughter that suggested I could help them.

At the end of this conversation, I turned to my dad and I said, here’s what you need to do so mom will feel loved. And then I turned to my mom and I said, this is what you do. So dad will be respected. And notice that the words changed and they changed because I translated what I heard each parent say, they were unable to hear each other’s Language, and adjust properly, but I could hear both languages and translate.

And in essence, Anthony, that’s what I do today by helping people tune into the style of the prospect. And when you hear what their language is and you hear what their values are, and you use that communication and those words back to them, that’s when they feel comforted, relaxed, and able to do business with you.

I love that. And I, and as you were describing the relationship with your parents, I couldn’t help but think that is a it’s visually, it’s also this idea of that’s what happens between sales and marketing. And and what happens in people’s brains when they have to go into sales mode and they’re not really attuned to it.

The cupboards are banging, the glasses are breaking, you’re feeling uncomfortable. The last you’re going into somewhere you don’t want to be. And that is it. It is that psychology behind it is so huge and. There is so much to unpack with all of this and we could talk for ages. I did want to ask you a couple final questions.

You’ve got six books, right? So tell me about it’s, it’s an incredible journey and we could speak for ages about the journey of writing books in the first place. But what’s the, tell me about the latest one and and what’s driven you for that? The latest one is on Audible. It is not in print.

I only put it on Audible called Stop Selling, Start Relating. And I did it on Audible because my clients love listening and maybe you the listener enjoy listening better than reading at times. And so hence that’s why I did it that way. But all the other ones are on print and they’re available through Amazon or through Google.

So if you search them out, there they are. And I also have a an actual link where you, if you want to get a copy of my books, it’s available that way too. We’re going to definitely provide all of that information and how to connect with Nancy because you run you, you run a number of coaching things.

And I know that we talked about the idea that it’s quite a closed group. Yeah. That people can get into. And so you need to have secret access, right? To be able to get to work with you. It’s not that secret, but I think you may be referring to a secret podcast that I recently released.

It’s not a book, but it is an audio or video or even a transcription. Take your choice how you’d like to consume the information. And what’s making it a secret is that it is not searchable on the usual podcast search engines. And hence, that’s why it’s a secret. Thanks so much. Bye. But it is available to the public and it’s on client builders and it’s specifically unveiling the hidden secrets of using LinkedIn to gain clients.

We’re going to talk more about that in our bonus bit of content. So that is our little secret. So people are going to have to get to that. So it makes sense to put it in there. Just a final question for you as we wrap this main podcast up, Nancy, tell me what is it that. When is it that people really see the lights switched on for them when they start working with you and what, because I always say to people, what is it that you would love people to know who are questioning whether they should work with you or not?

And it’s best when you describe it, I think, as What is the point where people see those lights switched on that you wish people before would have known about? I think it is when someone realises it’s not about me. It’s about personality style and that the other person is behaving and doing and whatever based on their style, not because of you.

And even when they use your first name or your full name in a sentence, it’s more about them. And it is about you. And when people recognize it’s not personal, it’s style, what a relief that is. It changes your sense of maybe confidence and goodwill and tolerance and understanding. It just opens up the ability to connect with people in a more authentic way.

Fantastic. Nancy, so much. Territory that we’ve covered. We’re going to, as I said, talk about personality styles on LinkedIn in our bonus bit of content, but for now, I just wanted to say, thank you so much for being an incredible guest on Biz Bites. I’ve enjoyed talking to you not just in this conversation, but in the one we had before, and I’m sure there’s going to be many more into the future.

So Nancy, thank you for being a part of Biz Bites. And thank you, Anthony, because you have asked some amazing questions and really drawn out information that not many people have done. So you have a real talent and skill, and your listeners, your audience, I commend you. Hey, thanks for listening to Biz Bites.

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